Where have all the brave men gone?

[brendywendy]

Bikey, pearce and ivar have all shown themselves to be good on the ball, and able/capable/willing to pass/run the ball out of the defence.

therefore IMO you are wrong

[Schards#2]

Bikey, pearce and ivar have all shown themselves to be good on the ball, and able/capable/willing to pass/run the ball out of the defence.

therefore IMO you are wrong

Have you ever seen Pearce play? - out and out hoof merchant

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

Bikey, pearce and ivar have all shown themselves to be good on the ball, and able/capable/willing to pass/run the ball out of the defence.

therefore IMO you are wrong

They have played good passes yes, but how many times? Pearce is pretty average on the ball, Bikey goes from great to appalling, Ivar's not a great passer, just the best of a bad bunch. Coppell can't say he doesn't understand why it happens and people on here can't blame the fans. It's the players we have, the players Coppell has signed. Despite playing hoof ball for most of the last two seasons, we've not signed one centre half to address these problems.

Just count the balls that go to no one on Saturday. Go back and watch the games from the last 2 seasons and tell me we have centre halves who are good on the ball, the evidence is there to watch...

[1871royals]

tell me we have centre halves who are good on the ball, the evidence is there to watch...

I find these comments confusing. At this level no CB’s are good on the ball. It such a rarity for CB’s to be good on the ball, John Terry is one of the best CB’s in the World but he is shocking on the ball. CB’s job is to stop goals which in the most part our CB’s can do. The reason we appear to be hoofing more imo, is before Shorey and Murty could both pass it accurately once they received it from CB’s.

Strech and Liam are shocking at passing, which means that we now “hoof” it more imo.

Also can anyone name a CB at this level who is consistently good on the ball?

I have a relatively good knowledge of championship and can’t think of anyone.

[CMRoyal]

My memory might be playing up, but I don't recall our centre backs being particularly good on the ball in 2005-7. I think the CB hoofball argument is a bit of a distraction; at this level, most teams are content to have defenders with similar uncompromising and unsophisticated attributes as our boys. It's farther up the field we're suffering for a lack of bravery/composure. Actually, I'd add the full-backs to that. Murts and Shorey were always calm on the ball. Stretch is too, and Harding was in the recent away games (I hope his poor performance on Sunday was more down to illness than nerves) but Rosey is a nightmare at the moment, and Kara, Kebe, S Hunt and to a lesser extent Long all treated the ball as an enemy against Brum. These guys have got to stand up and be counted on Saturday.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

tell me we have centre halves who are good on the ball, the evidence is there to watch...

I find these comments confusing. At this level no CB’s are good on the ball. It such a rarity for CB’s to be good on the ball, John Terry is one of the best CB’s in the World but he is shocking on the ball. CB’s job is to stop goals which in the most part our CB’s can do. The reason we appear to be hoofing more imo, is before Shorey and Murty could both pass it accurately once they received it from CB’s.

Strech and Liam are shocking at passing, which means that we now “hoof” it more imo.

Also can anyone name a CB at this level who is consistently good on the ball?

I have a relatively good knowledge of championship and can’t think of anyone.

But are tactics seem to be to get our defenders to play the ball up the pitch, which they can't. So why don't we have midfielders who can come and get the ball off the back four? Maybe they don't have the bollox. Which is what it appears Coppell is saying, but they are his players.

It just seems that we have had the same problems for the last two season and yet Coppell still seems surprised by them.

[CMRoyal]

tell me we have centre halves who are good on the ball, the evidence is there to watch...

I find these comments confusing. At this level no CB’s are good on the ball. It such a rarity for CB’s to be good on the ball, John Terry is one of the best CB’s in the World but he is shocking on the ball. CB’s job is to stop goals which in the most part our CB’s can do. The reason we appear to be hoofing more imo, is before Shorey and Murty could both pass it accurately once they received it from CB’s.

Strech and Liam are shocking at passing, which means that we now “hoof” it more imo.

Also can anyone name a CB at this level who is consistently good on the ball?

I have a relatively good knowledge of championship and can’t think of anyone.

But are tactics seem to be to get our defenders to play the ball up the pitch, which they can't. So why don't we have midfielders who can come and get the ball off the back four? Maybe they don't have the bollox. Which is what it appears Coppell is saying, but they are his players.

It just seems that we have had the same problems for the last two season and yet Coppell still seems surprised by them.

I don't know whether he's surprised, but it does take us into a circular argument, whereby he falls back on the likes of Harper, leading to accusations of excess loyalty. With the way the team played on Sunday, if James was fit he'd have a claim to a place, purely on the grounds you state - that he is a man to pick the ball up off the defence - and because he was part of the more successful, confident team we are trying to get back to.

[Forbury Lion]

No I'm not paraphrasing Bonnie Tyler, this is Coppell himself. Because he's not sure that we are brave enough to beat Burnley.

"You have to go in wanting to win and wanting to be brave. And by brave I don't mean by making challenges, I mean getting hold of the ball and having the confidence to look up, pass properly and play from there."

A bit more bravery with team selections, tactics and substitutions would also be usefull.

[Negative_Jeff]

No I'm not paraphrasing Bonnie Tyler, this is Coppell himself. Because he's not sure that we are brave enough to beat Burnley.

"You have to go in wanting to win and wanting to be brave. And by brave I don't mean by making challenges, I mean getting hold of the ball and having the confidence to look up, pass properly and play from there."

"Look up, pass properly and play from there" What does that mean? Play from where? To play a successful passing game you need movement. No mention of this in Coppell`s statement and we don`t have it. Fabregas would stuggle to see a pass in our set up.
The 05/06 team had an element of pass and move with the likes of Shorey, Murty, Little, Convey and Kitson. I believe this was in spite of Coppell not because of him.

[I was there at Elm Park]

No I'm not paraphrasing Bonnie Tyler, this is Coppell himself. Because he's not sure that we are brave enough to beat Burnley.

"You have to go in wanting to win and wanting to be brave. And by brave I don't mean by making challenges, I mean getting hold of the ball and having the confidence to look up, pass properly and play from there."

A bit more bravery with team selections, tactics and substitutions would also be usefull.

To be fair to Coppell I actually think he has been braver with team selections this season. He's dropped his supposed favourites and been willing to give the youngsters a go. But I do agree with tactics and substitutions.

[CMRoyal]

No I'm not paraphrasing Bonnie Tyler, this is Coppell himself. Because he's not sure that we are brave enough to beat Burnley.

"You have to go in wanting to win and wanting to be brave. And by brave I don't mean by making challenges, I mean getting hold of the ball and having the confidence to look up, pass properly and play from there."

"Look up, pass properly and play from there" What does that mean? Play from where? To play a successful passing game you need movement. No mention of this in Coppell`s statement and we don`t have it. Fabregas would stuggle to see a pass in our set up.
The 05/06 team had an element of pass and move with the likes of Shorey, Murty, Little, Convey and Kitson. I believe this was in spite of Coppell not because of him.

No, it was because of him. He has a set-up and a style that never changes. Within that, he trusts his players to be able to improvise and adapt to situations, and that lot were particularly attuned to the responsibility. Given that he put them together, he has to take a lot of the credit. But you only have to get that a little bit wrong for it all to fall to pieces. I think the current lot have the wit to work within the SC template, but not the mental fortitude to adapt it when things aren't going well. If SC's to blame for anything, it's not being able to inject that kind of confidence to a sufficient level - conversely, he must take credit for the times in the past when he has. Anyway, a manager who encourages automatons might well work better with this particular squad in the future.

[winterwood]

Home Page just now states the following:

Both Legs now for sale....

Just hope these belong to SHunt.....going to the highest bidder...

http://www.readingfc.co.uk/page/NewsDet ... 78,00.html

[Mad Dog's Ghost]

Tuppence?

Back to the topic, I don't expect our centre backs to pass it like Baresi but I've honestly never seen a worse player on the ball than Duberry. Makes Sonko look like Bobby Moore. However, our problem is the flanks, starting with the full backs. Harding was nervous on the ball Sunday, Rosenior, well, quite simply the most annoying player we've ever had. Plants pass after pass to opposition or more often row D. Love the way he then does a load of pointing. And have you notice that if the ball boy doesn't throw him the ball within a milisecond when we have throw-in, he starts waving his arms at them too. Whack it straight in his nuts if I could be a ball boy for a day.

[brendywendy]

Bikey, pearce and ivar have all shown themselves to be good on the ball, and able/capable/willing to pass/run the ball out of the defence.

therefore IMO you are wrong

Have you ever seen Pearce play? - out and out hoof merchant

not true, during his periods in the team i can remember him calmly bringing down the ball, stepping inside an attacker and waltzing out of the defence on numerous occasions, before laying it off nicely to one of our midfielders, prompting comparisons with ivar all week on here


your STG obscuring your view again?

[brendywendy]

Bikey, pearce and ivar have all shown themselves to be good on the ball, and able/capable/willing to pass/run the ball out of the defence.

therefore IMO you are wrong

They have played good passes yes, but how many times? Pearce is pretty average on the ball, Bikey goes from great to appalling, Ivar's not a great passer, just the best of a bad bunch. Coppell can't say he doesn't understand why it happens and people on here can't blame the fans. It's the players we have, the players Coppell has signed. Despite playing hoof ball for most of the last two seasons, we've not signed one centre half to address these problems.

Just count the balls that go to no one on Saturday. Go back and watch the games from the last 2 seasons and tell me we have centre halves who are good on the ball, the evidence is there to watch...

my point isnt that we dont do it


my point is that we can do it, have done it- yet when the pressure is on refuse to do it

ergo its a mental mental, rather than a technique/ability thing


and I doubt better ball playing defenders than ivar and bikey are available for a team like us
i could be wrong

[brendywendy]

tell me we have centre halves who are good on the ball, the evidence is there to watch...

I find these comments confusing. At this level no CB’s are good on the ball. It such a rarity for CB’s to be good on the ball, John Terry is one of the best CB’s in the World but he is shocking on the ball. CB’s job is to stop goals which in the most part our CB’s can do. The reason we appear to be hoofing more imo, is before Shorey and Murty could both pass it accurately once they received it from CB’s.

Strech and Liam are shocking at passing, which means that we now “hoof” it more imo.

Also can anyone name a CB at this level who is consistently good on the ball?

I have a relatively good knowledge of championship and can’t think of anyone.

But are tactics seem to be to get our defenders to play the ball up the pitch, which they can't. So why don't we have midfielders who can come and get the ball off the back four? Maybe they don't have the bollox. Which is what it appears Coppell is saying, but they are his players.

It just seems that we have had the same problems for the last two season and yet Coppell still seems surprised by them.

therefore the problem isnt our lack of ball playing CBs and is more to do with the malfunctioning wingers and the full backs that are supposed to link with them


its certainly not tactical as coppell has mentioned it before, and is clearly tearing his hair out about it now

[brendywendy]

No I'm not paraphrasing Bonnie Tyler, this is Coppell himself. Because he's not sure that we are brave enough to beat Burnley.

"You have to go in wanting to win and wanting to be brave. And by brave I don't mean by making challenges, I mean getting hold of the ball and having the confidence to look up, pass properly and play from there."

A bit more bravery with team selections, tactics and substitutions would also be usefull.

like what?!

where was he deficient in this in the last match?

he had 5 up front for at least 20 minutes on sunday

& has dropped everyone of his so called undroppables



it seems you lot are as confused as you reckon coppell is

[Schards#2]

Bikey, pearce and ivar have all shown themselves to be good on the ball, and able/capable/willing to pass/run the ball out of the defence.

therefore IMO you are wrong

Have you ever seen Pearce play? - out and out hoof merchant

not true, during his periods in the team i can remember him calmly bringing down the ball, stepping inside an attacker and waltzing out of the defence on numerous occasions, before laying it off nicely to one of our midfielders, prompting comparisons with ivar all week on here


your STG obscuring your view again?

errr.....i'm not the one regularly spotted out of his tree at the game.

I presume you were when you witnessed the above as Pearce has always been a no nonsense player when he's on the ball. Good defender but no ball player.

[Hoop Blah]

I don't know whether he's surprised, but it does take us into a circular argument, whereby he falls back on the likes of Harper, leading to accusations of excess loyalty. With the way the team played on Sunday, if James was fit he'd have a claim to a place, purely on the grounds you state - that he is a man to pick the ball up off the defence - and because he was part of the more successful, confident team we are trying to get back to.

Spot on. Harper would come deep, demand the ball and then play it to whichever fullback or winger was in the best position to receive the ball and either start an attack or just keep posession. Every now and again he'd play the ball forward into the forwards but more often than not he'd make sure he got the ball, gave it to a Reading player and then made himself available to get it back off of them if needs be.

What happened to Harper? He was constantly slagged off for passing the ball sideways. We're now seeing what happens when all you do is hit it forward!

[brendywendy]

Have you ever seen Pearce play? - out and out hoof merchant

not true, during his periods in the team i can remember him calmly bringing down the ball, stepping inside an attacker and waltzing out of the defence on numerous occasions, before laying it off nicely to one of our midfielders, prompting comparisons with ivar all week on here


your STG obscuring your view again?

errr.....i'm not the one regularly spotted out of his tree at the game.

I presume you were when you witnessed the above as Pearce has always been a no nonsense player when he's on the ball. Good defender but no ball player.

oooof!!

fair comment

i can remember post after post praising the lad for his improving ball skills,in aq couple of games in a row, on this very board, during days where i was not out of my tree for doing just as i said above
i know i saw them, i know i saw him do it too, whether you choose to believe me or care is up to you.
i was just playing devils advocaat

and on that note im off to crawl back into my tree.