Refwatch: West Brom F.A. Cup

[Sun Tzu]

Would be interesting to know how many people who slate referees have actually taken the time to attend a refereeing course and qualify, or even taken charge of any games.

Might be a bit of an eye opener if people did that.

And LOL at the idea that Premiership refs should never take charge of games involving Championship sides becasue 'the game is different'. How do you think the top refs get to the Prem ? Howard Webb wasn't born a Premiership referee and every referee has officiated at all levels from parks football through the whole pyramid. Almost without exception they will have a better understanding of the game as a whole than fans, players or managers.....

[Big Foot]

The yellow for Howard was perhaps a bit harsh, but I don't expect the ref to get it right 100%. If it was a yellow there might have been a couple for West Brom before it, but that's about it. Overall, a pretty good performance.

Yellow was blatantly for Howard giving him loads of grief. You make a soft foul after doing that and any ref is going to book you. Especially if you keep mouthing off

Ah so that's what you meant when you said about Howard being vocal for the team in your pitch for him to be captain

Early doors one of their players deliberately handled it near the halfway line after Karacan (I think) took it over him - why no booking?

[Sun Tzu]

The yellow for Howard was perhaps a bit harsh, but I don't expect the ref to get it right 100%. If it was a yellow there might have been a couple for West Brom before it, but that's about it. Overall, a pretty good performance.

Yellow was blatantly for Howard giving him loads of grief. You make a soft foul after doing that and any ref is going to book you. Especially if you keep mouthing off

Ah so that's what you meant when you said about Howard being vocal for the team in your pitch for him to be captain

Early doors one of their players deliberately handled it near the halfway line after Karacan (I think) took it over him - why no booking?

Maybe the ref didn't think it met the requirements for a caution ? I didn't see it but hand ball, deliberate or otherwise, is not in itself an automatic yellow card.

[glass half full]

It would be interesting to see statistics for cautions for deliberate handball near the halfway line.

[Tails]

It would be interesting to see statistics for cautions for deliberate handball near the halfway line.

Stretching the use of the word 'interesting' there, tbh.

[bcubed]

Would be interesting to know how many people who slate referees have actually taken the time to attend a refereeing course and qualify, or even taken charge of any games.

Might be a bit of an eye opener if people did that.

And LOL at the idea that Premiership refs should never take charge of games involving Championship sides becasue 'the game is different'. How do you think the top refs get to the Prem ? Howard Webb wasn't born a Premiership referee and every referee has officiated at all levels from parks football through the whole pyramid. Almost without exception they will have a better understanding of the game as a whole than fans, players or managers.....

I really don't think it's necessary to be a qualified referee to know if they are any good or not
It's quite a simple game - not the complexity of rules that some sports have, rugby for example
Playing the game at some competetitve level is surely enough to know what a foul looks like, to know when somone is conning a ref, and to know what consistency should look like

[Sun Tzu]

[quote="bcubed"


I really don't think it's necessary to be a qualified referee to know if they are any good or not
It's quite a simple game - not the complexity of rules that some sports have, rugby for example
Playing the game at some competetitve level is surely enough to know what a foul looks like, to know when somone is conning a ref, and to know what consistency should look like[/quote]

I refer you to the vast range of TV pundits who have played the game at a high level for years yet have no idea about the rules or the application of them.
The laws of the game are indeed quite simple, however the application of them is much more complex becasue unlike many other sports they are heavily dependent on the opninion of the referee rather than judgement of fact.
I'd also question your use of the word 'consistency'. It's a cliched phrase used by many which has absolutely no meaning in the context of the game. We need referees to make correct decisions based on the laws and their opinion, 'consistency' is of no relevance at all in it's own right. You could have referees being 100% consistent and 100% wrong. Would really help the game....

[handbags_harris]

It would be interesting to see statistics for cautions for deliberate handball near the halfway line.

Is there any other handball offence than a handball that is deemed deliberate? This is one point which grinds my gears a little - any handball given is deemed deliberate by default, as the laws of the game specifically state that a handball offence is when a player "handles the ball deliberately". So I fail to see the logic of the question given that an unintentional handball is not an offence at all.

[Arch]

It would be interesting to see statistics for cautions for deliberate handball near the halfway line.

Is there any other handball offence than a handball that is deemed deliberate? This is one point which grinds my gears a little - any handball given is deemed deliberate by default, as the laws of the game specifically state that a handball offence is when a player "handles the ball deliberately". So I fail to see the logic of the question given that an unintentional handball is not an offence at all.

That's all very well, but in practice non-deliberate handling of the ball is frequently penalized. For example, if a player goes up for a contested header and his flailing arm catches the ball, it'll always be called regardless of intent. The only mitigating consideration seems to be if you literally couldn't have avoided it - e.g. if the ball is driven at you from close range.

[Terminal Boardom]

How many supporters actually know the rules? Last week at the Plymouth game, a Reading fan behind me screamed for offside from a throw in! Second up, it is much easier to see from an elevated position than at pitch level for certain offences. The ref of the game I went to yesterday was reasonable enough but did make one really bad decision in stopping play rather than allowing an obvious advantage. And before anyone asks, yes, I did qualify as a referee many years ago!

[The Positive One!]

Not a brilliant performance - yet again. Long was not protected at all in the first half - the referee and linesman appearing to ignore any pushing, arms, shirt pulling. OK - the tackle was high but he didn't get the player with his leading foot - definitely a booking but NEVER a sending off.

It is about time they took away the intercoms from the refs and linesmen and started letting the linesmen make their own decisions!

[Ian Royal]

Not a brilliant performance - yet again. Long was not protected at all in the first half - the referee and linesman appearing to ignore any pushing, arms, shirt pulling. OK - the tackle was high but he didn't get the player with his leading foot - definitely a booking but NEVER a sending off.

It is about time they took away the intercoms from the refs and linesmen and started letting the linesmen make their own decisions!

Looked like he got him with both to me. And if you jump into a tackle so that you become airborn, it doesn't really matter if you get teh ball perfectly and none of the player. Injuring someone isn't a red card offence, but a dangerous tackle is and it doesn't have to hit to be dangerous.

[Dirk Gently]

Was it just me who noticed Long get taken out off the ball as Kebe scored - that was one of three or four times he was taken out in that first half.

[handbags_harris]

Not a brilliant performance - yet again. Long was not protected at all in the first half - the referee and linesman appearing to ignore any pushing, arms, shirt pulling. OK - the tackle was high but he didn't get the player with his leading foot - definitely a booking but NEVER a sending off.

It is about time they took away the intercoms from the refs and linesmen and started letting the linesmen make their own decisions!

Firstly, the challenge was an off the floor lunge, studs first, high, AND he caught the player. Regardless of any other circumstances, that is a red card challenge.

Secondly, the whole idea of mic's for refs and linesmen was to improve communication between them and it has done that. There have been no changes as far as I can see in the decision making process. Referees will always hold sway over linesmen in that area. Microphones won't make any diffrence to that.

[Terminal Boardom]

Was it just me who noticed Long get taken out off the ball as Kebe scored - that was one of three or four times he was taken out in that first half.

I saw that on the replay on tv from behind the goal. It would have been interesting what the referee would have done had Kebe NOT scored.

[westendgirl]

Secondly, the whole idea of mic's for refs and linesmen was to improve communication between them and it has done that. There have been no changes as far as I can see in the decision making process. Referees will always hold sway over linesmen in that area. Microphones won't make any diffrence to that.

Personally I would like to see this extended (dare I say it like Rugby) to communicating with all the crowd so that we can understand their decisions - and have the addedd bonus of slowly educating those that follow the game about what the laws actually are.

[The Positive One!]

Having just watched the Bolton v Spurs game there were several similar offences to that of Long's yesterday - but nothing but a yellow card was produced. Just where is the consistency??

[handbags_harris]

Secondly, the whole idea of mic's for refs and linesmen was to improve communication between them and it has done that. There have been no changes as far as I can see in the decision making process. Referees will always hold sway over linesmen in that area. Microphones won't make any diffrence to that.

Personally I would like to see this extended (dare I say it like Rugby) to communicating with all the crowd so that we can understand their decisions - and have the addedd bonus of slowly educating those that follow the game about what the laws actually are.

Why not go the whole hog and do it like Gridiron where the referee's decision and explanation is boomed out over the PA system?

[Sun Tzu]

Not a brilliant performance - yet again. Long was not protected at all in the first half - the referee and linesman appearing to ignore any pushing, arms, shirt pulling. OK - the tackle was high but he didn't get the player with his leading foot - definitely a booking but NEVER a sending off.

It is about time they took away the intercoms from the refs and linesmen and started letting the linesmen make their own decisions!

Firstly, the challenge was an off the floor lunge, studs first, high, AND he caught the player. Regardless of any other circumstances, that is a red card challenge.

Secondly, the whole idea of mic's for refs and linesmen was to improve communication between them and it has done that. There have been no changes as far as I can see in the decision making process. Referees will always hold sway over linesmen in that area. Microphones won't make any diffrence to that.

You'll never be able to let linesmen 'make their own decisions'. It should always be the referee who is the decision maker but linesmen are senior refs in their own right and are just as capable of deciding wht is a foul etc as the man in the middle. The ref will usually accept the advice of his linesmen unless he can see something they can;t (an advantage etc). I think the World Cup approach of having teams of officials who always work together is a good one and would like to see if here. Appoint a ref and two linos to work as a team for the season in order to allow them to build trust etc and I think you would see the benefits in terms of the way they work together.

[andrew1957]

It seems to me that every ref who comes to the Madstad is rated as terrible on here. The fact is we are biased and think every decision should go our way. The truth is he is a top class ref and arguably got all the major decisons right yesterday. Let us give some credit when we do get a good ref as some of the Championship ones really are dire.