Snowball, the stats are undeniable, but I'd make two counterpoints on those:
- Most of those games came early in the season. Many on here have simply been clamouring for Guthrie to get a chance when other midfielders have been playing poorly.
- Of the defeats you listed, there's Spurs twice, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. Results when Guthrie has been involved against 'lesser' sides? Pretty good based on that list. Who knows what might have been different had Guthrie started against Wigan, Southampton, Villa, Fulham, and so on?
Where was Guthrie again?!
I don't buy all this 'he's arrogant' talk from everyone.
He joined READING for god sake we're hardly world beaters. Its a very modest move to join Reading in my book. He was offered a new contract by Newcastle and the fans liked him up there.
We all know Reading buy players based on their CHARACTER and PERSONALITY and listening to his interviews I believe he sounds genuine.
People are still failing to see he is not an attacking midfielder. He does not have the mobility to support the striker, run beyond the striker or drive with the ball. He needs to see the game in front of him and be a deep play maker.
I'll probably get grilled for this analogy as you will probably think I'm comparing player abilities. Imagine Carrick in an attacking mid role for UTD it would be ridiculous.
He was never going to be a player that gets the crowd excited because he's not that player. He plays a very simple game of ticking things over in front of the back four, which is essential in modern day football. He will be relatively ineffective when players are not moving around.
I'm not defending his move to not play against Sunderland because that was poor judgement.
What annoys me is people calling him shit because he doesn't run around like a headless chicken or become this creative wizard when playing CAM. So based on the logic he plays as our creative mid as someone else pointed out, why the oxf*rd would he get back to defend.
For me it should be Akpan in the CAM role, he looks like someone who can drive with ball. With Guthrie and one other in front of the back four!
He joined READING for god sake we're hardly world beaters. Its a very modest move to join Reading in my book. He was offered a new contract by Newcastle and the fans liked him up there.
We all know Reading buy players based on their CHARACTER and PERSONALITY and listening to his interviews I believe he sounds genuine.
People are still failing to see he is not an attacking midfielder. He does not have the mobility to support the striker, run beyond the striker or drive with the ball. He needs to see the game in front of him and be a deep play maker.
I'll probably get grilled for this analogy as you will probably think I'm comparing player abilities. Imagine Carrick in an attacking mid role for UTD it would be ridiculous.
He was never going to be a player that gets the crowd excited because he's not that player. He plays a very simple game of ticking things over in front of the back four, which is essential in modern day football. He will be relatively ineffective when players are not moving around.
I'm not defending his move to not play against Sunderland because that was poor judgement.
What annoys me is people calling him shit because he doesn't run around like a headless chicken or become this creative wizard when playing CAM. So based on the logic he plays as our creative mid as someone else pointed out, why the oxf*rd would he get back to defend.
For me it should be Akpan in the CAM role, he looks like someone who can drive with ball. With Guthrie and one other in front of the back four!
My point is that not once in those ten starts has Guthrie stood out, stamped his alleged authority or class on the game.
Ignore the occasional fancy turn or good pass. I can think of 3 in ten games, but surely a "class" player should manage 2-3-4 VG passes PER GAME?
One lucky goal, zero assists in 900 minutes? Hardly impressive.
Akpan is a raw kid but has made more good passes in less minutes, has plenty of assists, DOES get tackles in, and, most importantly, is a team player.
McAnuff gets in defensive work and the crosses and is our best player for assists.
L-Wood gets through a heck of a lot of work and looks burned out to me. MotD criticised the three "defenders" for the Giroud goal on Saturday, but one of those was L-Wood who chased back 50 yards. OK, with others he didn't stop the goal, but at least he got back, with Kelly AWOL and the other midfielders nowhere.
Jen ATM seems anonymous, so if we are to give Guthrie a run out I'd do it in a 4-1-4-1 with Guthrie receiving the ball from defence, L-Wood the hard man in front, and Akpan in the more attacking role
Ignore the occasional fancy turn or good pass. I can think of 3 in ten games, but surely a "class" player should manage 2-3-4 VG passes PER GAME?
One lucky goal, zero assists in 900 minutes? Hardly impressive.
Akpan is a raw kid but has made more good passes in less minutes, has plenty of assists, DOES get tackles in, and, most importantly, is a team player.
McAnuff gets in defensive work and the crosses and is our best player for assists.
L-Wood gets through a heck of a lot of work and looks burned out to me. MotD criticised the three "defenders" for the Giroud goal on Saturday, but one of those was L-Wood who chased back 50 yards. OK, with others he didn't stop the goal, but at least he got back, with Kelly AWOL and the other midfielders nowhere.
Jen ATM seems anonymous, so if we are to give Guthrie a run out I'd do it in a 4-1-4-1 with Guthrie receiving the ball from defence, L-Wood the hard man in front, and Akpan in the more attacking role
Can't disagree with your final paragraph, which ironically is exactly the role Guthrie took with some success in his very first game for the club, subsequently Brian made it clear that role wasn't 'the Reading way'. Hopefully it's Nigel's way.
We've played 4-1-4-1 most of the time we've played 1 up top (Sunderland being one ofnthe exceptions), but I do agree Guthrie isn't best suited to the more advanced roles.
Guthrie isn't a class player at this level, anyone who was expecting him to be is being more than a little naive. What he is is a decent enough player who's strength is moving the ball around and helping to build up play. Quality wise he's a Premier League Brian Howard or Jay Tabb and to expect him to dominate games and give us a wow factor like a Modric or van der Vaart did for Spurs is just daft.
Guthrie isn't a class player at this level, anyone who was expecting him to be is being more than a little naive. What he is is a decent enough player who's strength is moving the ball around and helping to build up play. Quality wise he's a Premier League Brian Howard or Jay Tabb and to expect him to dominate games and give us a wow factor like a Modric or van der Vaart did for Spurs is just daft.
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Ian Royal
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Once again, I see pretty much nothing wrong (or innacurate) with what he's said and people seem to be twisting it into some sort of pop at McDermott from something fairly innocuous.
Midfield Stats
Goals, Assists (MC = Major Contribution = Goals plus Assists)
0 Goals 4 Assists 0426 - - - 0107 Mins per MC Akpan
5 Goals 2 Assists 0955 - - - 0136 Mins per MC HRK
5 Goals 2 Assists 1333 - - - 0190 Mins per MC Kebe
0 Goals 8 Assists 2676 - - - 0335 Mins per MC McAnuff
1 Goals 2 Assists 1037 - - - 0346 Mins per MC McCleary
1 Goals 0 Assists 1013 - - - 1013 Mins per MC Guthrie
1 Goals 0 Assists 2600 - - - 2600 Mins per MC L-Wood
0 Goals 0 Assists 0999 - - - 9999 Mins per MC Karacan
Hal has 5 goals 2 assists in less minutes. Akpan has played only 426 league minutes but is INVOLVED
Kebe is Kebe.
All three have stats 5-10 times better than Guthrie.
I appreciate he could be making brilliant defence-splitting passes, that are one touch away from an assist
but then so do other players. His stats confirm what I see of him. That is, not enough influence on games
Goals, Assists (MC = Major Contribution = Goals plus Assists)
0 Goals 4 Assists 0426 - - - 0107 Mins per MC Akpan
5 Goals 2 Assists 0955 - - - 0136 Mins per MC HRK
5 Goals 2 Assists 1333 - - - 0190 Mins per MC Kebe
0 Goals 8 Assists 2676 - - - 0335 Mins per MC McAnuff
1 Goals 2 Assists 1037 - - - 0346 Mins per MC McCleary
1 Goals 0 Assists 1013 - - - 1013 Mins per MC Guthrie
1 Goals 0 Assists 2600 - - - 2600 Mins per MC L-Wood
0 Goals 0 Assists 0999 - - - 9999 Mins per MC Karacan
Hal has 5 goals 2 assists in less minutes. Akpan has played only 426 league minutes but is INVOLVED
Kebe is Kebe.
All three have stats 5-10 times better than Guthrie.
I appreciate he could be making brilliant defence-splitting passes, that are one touch away from an assist
but then so do other players. His stats confirm what I see of him. That is, not enough influence on games
You can't really compare his stats with those of the wide players as their roles are totally different.
I do agree he hasn't had enough impact on games but, as per your caveat, his role is more about setting up the attacks that's making the final pass (see Ronson-Kanu's goal for the perfect example). For what it's worth I thought he played alright on Saturday and was involved in most of our good play.
I do agree he hasn't had enough impact on games but, as per your caveat, his role is more about setting up the attacks that's making the final pass (see Ronson-Kanu's goal for the perfect example). For what it's worth I thought he played alright on Saturday and was involved in most of our good play.
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blythspartan
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Guthrie seems a bit of a prat but I think that next season in the Championship he will redeem himself.
He was quality for Newcastle when they went down and I hope that he stays.
He was quality for Newcastle when they went down and I hope that he stays.
Nothing wrong with the comments.
namroyal He couldn't explain the ridiculous pass to nobody that resulted in an Arsenal goal on the counter whilst he's at it could he?
Which bit needs explaining for you?
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Royal Rother
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Another shit / cheating piece of journalism.
The words in quote marks were used, but not in the context suggested.
Speaking after the 4-1 defeat at Arsenal, Guthrie claimed McDermott had his favourites, some players were “guaranteed” their place in the starting line-up and things are “already better” under new boss Adkins.
The words in quote marks were used, but not in the context suggested.
“I don’t want to talk about anything in the past, I want to look forward now. We’ve got a new manager now and everything is looking a little bit better.
“I think some of the lads who were guaranteed a place in the past have to be a little bit sharper and for players like me it’s a new chance under a new manager. It has a big impact on everyone.
“I don’t know if there were favourites under Brian McDernott, but there were players who played every week. When a new manager comes in, it’s a fresh start for everyone.
Midfield is midfield, and we certainly can compare Akpan to Guthrie (and Akpan has done MUCH better than Guthrie)
Of course defensive midfielders are likely to have different stats
but it still follows that Guthrie has done VERY little.
So he sends a long pass into the channels for McAnuff? Isn't that the basics of his job?
How many times? What else did he do?
Of the top of my head I remember a ball out to Kebe that resulted in a penalty, a pass that resulted in a cross and goal
and the one you've mentioned. (I can't remember the Stoke and Chelsea games from a Guthrie POV)
In more than 1100 minutes of Premiership game time that's pretty crap, even more so when the guy (he says) is "special".
Remember he was saying that now he was at Reading he hoped to get in the England set-up?
Of course defensive midfielders are likely to have different stats
but it still follows that Guthrie has done VERY little.
So he sends a long pass into the channels for McAnuff? Isn't that the basics of his job?
How many times? What else did he do?
Of the top of my head I remember a ball out to Kebe that resulted in a penalty, a pass that resulted in a cross and goal
and the one you've mentioned. (I can't remember the Stoke and Chelsea games from a Guthrie POV)
In more than 1100 minutes of Premiership game time that's pretty crap, even more so when the guy (he says) is "special".
Remember he was saying that now he was at Reading he hoped to get in the England set-up?
Snowball Midfield is midfield, and we certainly can compare Akpan to Guthrie (and Akpan has done MUCH better than Guthrie)
I said you can't compare him to the wide players....try reading!
Maybe YOU should read more carefully
Just the first line of my post should do , Akpan v Guthrie
Just the first line of my post should do , Akpan v Guthrie
You showed a list including wingers to show he's been ineffective. I said you can't compare wingers with him as totally different roles and you came back saying midfield is midfeild and bleating about Akpan who isn't a winger!
Hoop Blah You showed a list including wingers to show he's been ineffective. I said you can't compare wingers with him as totally different roles and you came back saying midfield is midfeild and bleating about Akpan who isn't a winger!
You were wrong
Midfield is midfield, and we certainly can compare Akpan to Guthrie (and Akpan has done MUCH better than Guthrie)
Where am I wrong?
I made a point about your post, that you can't compare Guthrie to the wingers in your list because they do a different role for the team.
You've countered that point by talking about Akpan who I agree has had a bigger measurable impact on the team in terms of assists (one being an air shot of course!).
I made a point about your post, that you can't compare Guthrie to the wingers in your list because they do a different role for the team.
You've countered that point by talking about Akpan who I agree has had a bigger measurable impact on the team in terms of assists (one being an air shot of course!).
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AthleticoSpizz
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(not that we've seen enough to agree or not) but, Why was Guthrie canned by Newcastle in the first place?
AthleticoSpizz (not that we've seen enough to agree or not) but, Why was Guthrie canned by Newcastle in the first place?
They apparently offered him a contract but he moved, ironically, for more first team football.
They also had one of last seasons best central midfield pairings (Cabeye & Tiote) keeping him out of the side.
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