Hunt out.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Let’s just relegate ourselves to the conference why not

[Hound]

I just think of course our players aren't as good as Bindon, Mbengue, Knibbs, Smith and Azeez, who are all playing at a higher level for a reason.

But do they match them for potential compared to 2 years ago? Obvious example - Lane is a similar age to Knibbs when we signed him, and already has a L1 season under his belt with double figures goals and assists. We should be able to help him develop like we did Knibbs. Kyerewaa is raw, quick without composure and end product but works hard, like Azeez was. Burns has come out of the City academy, looks decent on the ball and has >50 EFL appearances under his belt. He potentially has a higher ceiling than O'Connor and Williams and is definitely ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago, but looks like a liability in this team. O'Mahony had a promising loan at Portsmouth in the Championship and has dominated the PL U21s league; we held off a lot of competition to sign him. But he looks lost.

But we say the squad isn't as good as last year and experienced players are injured. Well I'm calling bullshit. It's the nature of L1 to lose your best players, and the coaching staff's job is to develop new ones, which we're failing miserably in. Clubs like Wimbledon, Bradford and Stevenage don't have as squads as good as ours on paper, but they are better teams due to better coaching.

I’ll throw a suggestion out that maybe some of our ‘best’ players from last year or 2 weren’t actually that special and good coaching and tactics made them look good

Bindon is perma-benched, Knibbs and Smith get a few mins at the end of the game. Abbey went nowhere. Vickers is back in L1. Holmes and McIntyre went nowhere and back in L1. Harris at Tranmere on loan

Mbengue has done pretty well tbf but Paudie should cover him at this level . Azeez is now but took him a long time

[MR. CYNICAL]

I just think of course our players aren't as good as Bindon, Mbengue, Knibbs, Smith and Azeez, who are all playing at a higher level for a reason.

But do they match them for potential compared to 2 years ago? Obvious example - Lane is a similar age to Knibbs when we signed him, and already has a L1 season under his belt with double figures goals and assists. We should be able to help him develop like we did Knibbs. Kyerewaa is raw, quick without composure and end product but works hard, like Azeez was. Burns has come out of the City academy, looks decent on the ball and has >50 EFL appearances under his belt. He potentially has a higher ceiling than O'Connor and Williams and is definitely ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago, but looks like a liability in this team. O'Mahony had a promising loan at Portsmouth in the Championship and has dominated the PL U21s league; we held off a lot of competition to sign him. But he looks lost.

But we say the squad isn't as good as last year and experienced players are injured. Well I'm calling bullshit. It's the nature of L1 to lose your best players, and the coaching staff's job is to develop new ones, which we're failing miserably in. Clubs like Wimbledon, Bradford and Stevenage don't have as squads as good as ours on paper, but they are better teams due to better coaching.

How can you say Burns is ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago?
You say he looks a liability in the team, Bindon was never that and looked class from day one.

[WestYorksRoyal]

I just think of course our players aren't as good as Bindon, Mbengue, Knibbs, Smith and Azeez, who are all playing at a higher level for a reason.

But do they match them for potential compared to 2 years ago? Obvious example - Lane is a similar age to Knibbs when we signed him, and already has a L1 season under his belt with double figures goals and assists. We should be able to help him develop like we did Knibbs. Kyerewaa is raw, quick without composure and end product but works hard, like Azeez was. Burns has come out of the City academy, looks decent on the ball and has >50 EFL appearances under his belt. He potentially has a higher ceiling than O'Connor and Williams and is definitely ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago, but looks like a liability in this team. O'Mahony had a promising loan at Portsmouth in the Championship and has dominated the PL U21s league; we held off a lot of competition to sign him. But he looks lost.

But we say the squad isn't as good as last year and experienced players are injured. Well I'm calling bullshit. It's the nature of L1 to lose your best players, and the coaching staff's job is to develop new ones, which we're failing miserably in. Clubs like Wimbledon, Bradford and Stevenage don't have as squads as good as ours on paper, but they are better teams due to better coaching.

How can you say Burns is ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago?
You say he looks a liability in the team, Bindon was never that and looked class from day one.

He was out of position at RB and looked unconvincing. Even at CB, he got dominated by Rhodes at Blackpool and had a costly poor game at home to Barnsley. He learned quickly and it became clear pretty quickly he was destined for a higher level. But there were bumps in the road.

[MR. CYNICAL]

I just think of course our players aren't as good as Bindon, Mbengue, Knibbs, Smith and Azeez, who are all playing at a higher level for a reason.

But do they match them for potential compared to 2 years ago? Obvious example - Lane is a similar age to Knibbs when we signed him, and already has a L1 season under his belt with double figures goals and assists. We should be able to help him develop like we did Knibbs. Kyerewaa is raw, quick without composure and end product but works hard, like Azeez was. Burns has come out of the City academy, looks decent on the ball and has >50 EFL appearances under his belt. He potentially has a higher ceiling than O'Connor and Williams and is definitely ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago, but looks like a liability in this team. O'Mahony had a promising loan at Portsmouth in the Championship and has dominated the PL U21s league; we held off a lot of competition to sign him. But he looks lost.

But we say the squad isn't as good as last year and experienced players are injured. Well I'm calling bullshit. It's the nature of L1 to lose your best players, and the coaching staff's job is to develop new ones, which we're failing miserably in. Clubs like Wimbledon, Bradford and Stevenage don't have as squads as good as ours on paper, but they are better teams due to better coaching.

How can you say Burns is ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago?
You say he looks a liability in the team, Bindon was never that and looked class from day one.

He was out of position at RB and looked unconvincing. Even at CB, he got dominated by Rhodes at Blackpool and had a costly poor game at home to Barnsley. He learned quickly and it became clear pretty quickly he was destined for a higher level. But there were bumps in the road.

Maybe so, he started at centre back but for some reason Selles decided to play him at right back for a few games where admittedly he looked uncomfortable, but I'd prefer him to Burns any day.

[WestYorksRoyal]

How can you say Burns is ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago?
You say he looks a liability in the team, Bindon was never that and looked class from day one.

He was out of position at RB and looked unconvincing. Even at CB, he got dominated by Rhodes at Blackpool and had a costly poor game at home to Barnsley. He learned quickly and it became clear pretty quickly he was destined for a higher level. But there were bumps in the road.

Maybe so, he started at centre back but for some reason Selles decided to play him at right back for a few games where admittedly he looked uncomfortable, but I'd prefer him to Burns any day.

Of course I'd prefer the Bindon who left us this summer to Burns; I'd prefer him to any of our CBs and indeed any CB in L1. But it wasn't always obvious he was at that level - I'm not convinced he was this time 2 years ago. Abbey was higher rated by a lot of fans initially.

[MR. CYNICAL]

He was out of position at RB and looked unconvincing. Even at CB, he got dominated by Rhodes at Blackpool and had a costly poor game at home to Barnsley. He learned quickly and it became clear pretty quickly he was destined for a higher level. But there were bumps in the road.

Maybe so, he started at centre back but for some reason Selles decided to play him at right back for a few games where admittedly he looked uncomfortable, but I'd prefer him to Burns any day.

Of course I'd prefer the Bindon who left us this summer to Burns; I'd prefer him to any of our CBs and indeed any CB in L1. But it wasn't always obvious he was at that level - I'm not convinced he was this time 2 years ago. Abbey was higher rated by a lot of fans initially.

To be fair, I'd forgotten about Abbey

[West F]

I just think of course our players aren't as good as Bindon, Mbengue, Knibbs, Smith and Azeez, who are all playing at a higher level for a reason.

But do they match them for potential compared to 2 years ago? Obvious example - Lane is a similar age to Knibbs when we signed him, and already has a L1 season under his belt with double figures goals and assists. We should be able to help him develop like we did Knibbs. Kyerewaa is raw, quick without composure and end product but works hard, like Azeez was. Burns has come out of the City academy, looks decent on the ball and has >50 EFL appearances under his belt. He potentially has a higher ceiling than O'Connor and Williams and is definitely ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago, but looks like a liability in this team. O'Mahony had a promising loan at Portsmouth in the Championship and has dominated the PL U21s league; we held off a lot of competition to sign him. But he looks lost.

But we say the squad isn't as good as last year and experienced players are injured. Well I'm calling bullshit. It's the nature of L1 to lose your best players, and the coaching staff's job is to develop new ones, which we're failing miserably in. Clubs like Wimbledon, Bradford and Stevenage don't have as squads as good as ours on paper, but they are better teams due to better coaching.

How can you say Burns is ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago?
You say he looks a liability in the team, Bindon was never that and looked class from day one.

He was out of position at RB and looked unconvincing. Even at CB, he got dominated by Rhodes at Blackpool and had a costly poor game at home to Barnsley. He learned quickly and it became clear pretty quickly he was destined for a higher level. But there were bumps in the road.

Bindon was 18 two years ago, Burns is 22 now and is basically end product. What helped Bindon was not only his obvious ability and match intelligence, it was being partnered with the very quick and powerful Mbengue at the back. They were the perfect foil for each other.
One thing that has been missing from us this season is the willingness for one of the centre backs to actually carry the ball and drive into midfield when there was no long pass on. It is something that Bindon did well last season when our opponents closed space and marked man for man when we were in possession at the back. When your centre backs are able to this, someone has to engage them and it opens the game up. Yesterday was a glaring example of this, where we resorted to hitting long balls, and surrendering possession over and over again. Bindon, Abbey and Mbengue could all carry the ball forwards and drive into midfield space. To be fair to Burns. I think he is the only centre back we have who could do this now. Hence, punts into channels and fight balls for the striker in the hope of catching second balls. It really doesn’t work when the opposition play a five in midfield, the odds are very much that they will be picking up second balls.

[West F]

Maybe so, he started at centre back but for some reason Selles decided to play him at right back for a few games where admittedly he looked uncomfortable, but I'd prefer him to Burns any day.

Of course I'd prefer the Bindon who left us this summer to Burns; I'd prefer him to any of our CBs and indeed any CB in L1. But it wasn't always obvious he was at that level - I'm not convinced he was this time 2 years ago. Abbey was higher rated by a lot of fans initially.

To be fair, I'd forgotten about Abbey

Now MIA in the Maranakis football multiverse. Such a fate has befallen Bindon and Richards.

Well done agents! Great career moves.

[MR. CYNICAL]

How can you say Burns is ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago?
You say he looks a liability in the team, Bindon was never that and looked class from day one.

He was out of position at RB and looked unconvincing. Even at CB, he got dominated by Rhodes at Blackpool and had a costly poor game at home to Barnsley. He learned quickly and it became clear pretty quickly he was destined for a higher level. But there were bumps in the road.

Bindon was 18 two years ago, Burns is 22 now and is basically end product. What helped Bindon was not only his obvious ability and match intelligence, it was being partnered with the very quick and powerful Mbengue at the back. They were the perfect foil for each other.
One thing that has been missing from us this season is the willingness for one of the centre backs to actually carry the ball and drive into midfield when there was no long pass on. It is something that Bindon did well last season when our opponents closed space and marked man for man when we were in possession at the back. When your centre backs are able to this, someone has to engage them and it opens the game up. Yesterday was a glaring example of this, where we resorted to hitting long balls, and surrendering possession over and over again. Bindon, Abbey and Mbengue could all carry the ball forwards and drive into midfield space. To be fair to Burns. I think he is the only centre back we have who could do this now. Hence, punts into channels and fight balls for the striker in the hope of catching second balls. It really doesn’t work when the opposition play a five in midfield, the odds are very much that they will be picking up second balls.

Agree with all of this 100%.
Too many aimless long balls and pointless hoofs looking for Kelvin to flick on killed us yesterday.
Don't think we won a second ball all match.

[windermereROYAL]

Williams was the biggest culprit yesterday for aimless long balls, one time in the 2nd half O`Connor had the ball at his feet and was looking for someone to come short, it didn`t happen so he launched it.
I`m wondering if he regrets leaving a team in the play-off places for a team just outside the drop zone.

[Hound]

Whenever Kelvin plays CF we seem to believe we have a big target man rather than an out of position winger playing CF

Mind you we’re not much better when we have the 5ft7 Marriott up there

[WestYorksRoyal]

I think the Bindon/Burns debate is taking away from the wider point that it's inevitable to lose your best players in L1 and have to develop news ones. Only a top budget would have kept the likes of Knibbs, Smith and Mbengue. If the players we have now look lost in comparison, maybe that responsibility sits with the management, and we should look at that instead of bemoaning recruitment.

Knibbs and Lane is the best contrast, albeit different positions. Both 24 when we signed them, but who had a better proven record in L1 when we signed them? Unquestionably Lane. So why does he look miles off developing into a Championship player like Knibbs did?

Recruitment was not the problem. The management is.

[Hound]

Based on this season, i wouldn’t be at all suprised if Couhig downgrades the academy. It’s not paying its way at all

The only academy players who featured at all yesterday came through years ago - under Ince iirc, Dorsett maybe before

Ahmed and Garcia won’t play much under Hunt going forwards I doubt, no one else being considered.

[Snowflake Royal]

Has now lost the fans and the dressing room.

Fraser is not injured but had a bust up with Hunt; as has Lane (but is still being selected). (source Huang Kad)

Time to go - NOW

That source being notorious wind up merchant Brogue.

Lost the dressing room my arse. They were all buddy buddy with him after Northampton ffs.

[Snowflake Royal]

I just think of course our players aren't as good as Bindon, Mbengue, Knibbs, Smith and Azeez, who are all playing at a higher level for a reason.

But do they match them for potential compared to 2 years ago? Obvious example - Lane is a similar age to Knibbs when we signed him, and already has a L1 season under his belt with double figures goals and assists. We should be able to help him develop like we did Knibbs. Kyerewaa is raw, quick without composure and end product but works hard, like Azeez was. Burns has come out of the City academy, looks decent on the ball and has >50 EFL appearances under his belt. He potentially has a higher ceiling than O'Connor and Williams and is definitely ahead of where Bindon was 2 years ago, but looks like a liability in this team. O'Mahony had a promising loan at Portsmouth in the Championship and has dominated the PL U21s league; we held off a lot of competition to sign him. But he looks lost.

But we say the squad isn't as good as last year and experienced players are injured. Well I'm calling bullshit. It's the nature of L1 to lose your best players, and the coaching staff's job is to develop new ones, which we're failing miserably in. Clubs like Wimbledon, Bradford and Stevenage don't have as squads as good as ours on paper, but they are better teams due to better coaching.

I’ll throw a suggestion out that maybe some of our ‘best’ players from last year or 2 weren’t actually that special and good coaching and tactics made them look good

Bindon is perma-benched, Knibbs and Smith get a few mins at the end of the game. Abbey went nowhere. Vickers is back in L1. Holmes and McIntyre went nowhere and back in L1. Harris at Tranmere on loan

Mbengue has done pretty well tbf but Paudie should cover him at this level . Azeez is now but took him a long time

It's never just about individual quality. It's always more about how players mesh and how they fit into the whole.

And the atmosphere. Pile pressure on with things going wrong and even good teams and players can choke under it.

[Orion1871]

Has now lost the fans and the dressing room.

Fraser is not injured but had a bust up with Hunt; as has Lane (but is still being selected). (source Huang Kad)

Time to go - NOW

That source being notorious wind up merchant Brogue.

Lost the dressing room my arse. They were all buddy buddy with him after Northampton ffs.

And were clearly pissed off with those chants directed at him yesterday.