Bikey In. Duberry Out.

[Woodcote Royal]

Bikey at his best is the best defender we have.

Unfortunately Bikey at his worst is a bigger liability than anyone and his last 3 games for us have been proof positive of that fact.

If we're gonna bring him back in we'd better be sure he's in the right state of mind to be focused on the job. You can print all the stats and make all the wild predictions about how well we would have done in recent games if he'd played but they don't tell you what his mental state is.

FWIW i think the fact we're starting to leak soft goals in recent games will make Coppell think that risk is worth taking but before that i can completely understand why he was reluctant to bring him in.

Well I don't.

If Coppell has so little faith in Bikey he's had several transfer windows in which to sign someone he does.

Whatever Bikey's shortcomings/perceived mental state, he's always been worth a punt over the pedestrian paced pairing of Pearce and Doobs.

Coppell just doesn't like his laid back African style but he could still his give his two rivals a 10 metre start and win a 100m race.

Even if Bikey starts on Saturday, our defence has been leaking goals in his absence that have seriously undermined our promotion hopes, just as his omission last season saw us relegated on the final day.

[Vision]

Bikey at his best is the best defender we have.

Unfortunately Bikey at his worst is a bigger liability than anyone and his last 3 games for us have been proof positive of that fact.

If we're gonna bring him back in we'd better be sure he's in the right state of mind to be focused on the job. You can print all the stats and make all the wild predictions about how well we would have done in recent games if he'd played but they don't tell you what his mental state is.

FWIW i think the fact we're starting to leak soft goals in recent games will make Coppell think that risk is worth taking but before that i can completely understand why he was reluctant to bring him in.

Well I don't.

If Coppell has so little faith in Bikey he's had several transfer windows in which to sign someone he does.

Whatever Bikey's shortcomings/perceived mental state, he's always been worth a punt over the pedestrian paced pairing of Pearce and Doobs.

Coppell just doesn't like his laid back African style but he could still his give his two rivals a 10 metre start and win a 100m race.

Even if Bikey starts on Saturday, our defence has been leaking goals in his absence that have seriously undermined our promotion hopes, just as his omission last season saw us relegated on the final day.

Yeah its as simple as that.

Bikey's last 3 appearances have been worse than the last 3 of Duberry and Pearce even allowing for Duberry's nightmare on Tuesday night. I'm not slagging him because as i say at his best he's the best we've got but he's not the Messiah

[Sun Tzu]

A perceived lack of pace in central defence has had nothing to do with any of the goals we've conceded of late so how having bikey in the team would have solved a problem which hasn't raised it's head I fail to see.

I'd be happier if the arguement was that we've conceded goals due to bad positioning / decision making and whilst these are the main problems with Bikey's game if someone who is playiong has the same problem then maybe Bikey's other strengths are worth having.

It's not an easy call, our defence has been very sound for much of the season and it's hardly porous now. Our promotion chances have been slightly dented by lack of scoring rather than conceding. Managers are there to make decisions and I don't think a manager who chops and changes too often is any better than one who doesn't make changes quickly enough.

As for signing a replacement for Bikey, why would we do that ? We have a number of very good centre backs, and we've managed quite nicely without Bikey for quite a while. I like Bikey, I'd like to see him in the team and would agree that now might be the time to pair him with Pearce (assuming Pearce's cut has healed).

[brendywendy]

as people have already said:
bikey was on his way to cementing his place with some solid performances, but towards the end of his last spell he had a few nightmares in a row, a sending off, and one of his most awful performances ive ever seen, then he got injured


all this spleen venting about if coppell doesnt put him straighht back in, and what the hell is coppell playing at is a bit daft in that context.

[Woodcote Royal]

Yeah its as simple as that.

Bikey's last 3 appearances have been worse than the last 3 of Duberry and Pearce even allowing for Duberry's nightmare on Tuesday night. I'm not slagging him because as i say at his best he's the best we've got but he's not the Messiah

Sorry to Snowball you but here are the 7 previous matches before Bikey's sending off at Cardiff followed by our last 7. I know which I prefer even if our home defeat to Southampton was dissapointing to say the least.

Tue 21 Oct 08 CHAMPIONSHIP DONCASTER ROVER (H) W: 2-1
Sat 25 Oct 08 CHAMPIONSHIP QPR (H) D: 0-0
Tue 28 Oct 08 CHAMPIONSHIP BURNLEY (A) L: 0-1
Sat 1 Nov 08 CHAMPIONSHIP BRISTOL CITY (A) W: 4-1
Sat 8 Nov 08 CHAMPIONSHIP DERBY COUNTY (H) W: 3-0
Sat 15 Nov 08 CHAMPIONSHIP SHEFFIELD UNITED (A) W: 2-0
Sat 22 Nov 08 CHAMPIONSHIP SOUTHAMPTON (H) L: 1-2


Tue 27 Jan 09 CHAMPIONSHIP WOLVES (H) W: 1-0
Sat 31 Jan 09 CHAMPIONSHIP QPR (A) D: 0-0
Sat 7 Feb 09 CHAMPIONSHIP PRESTON NORTH END (H) L: 0-2
Sat 28 Feb 09 CHAMPIONSHIP NOTTINGHAM FOREST (H) L: 0-1
Tue 3 Mar 09 CHAMPIONSHIP SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY (A) W: 2-1
Sat 7 Mar 09 CHAMPIONSHIP PLYMOUTH ARGYLE (A) D: 2-2
Tue 10 Mar 09 CHAMPIONSHIP CHARLTON ATHLETIC (H) D: 2-2

[Sun Tzu]

Are those results due to Bikey though ?

How does Ivar fit into the equation ? Or Marcus ?

[Woodcote Royal]

A perceived lack of pace in central defence has had nothing to do with any of the goals we've conceded of late so how having bikey in the team would have solved a problem which hasn't raised it's head I fail to see.

Do you remember the goals we conceded against Forest and Plymouth?

Players running straight through our out-gunned midfield with two "slow as fcuk" centre halves backing off like the parting of the waves

This not only effects the way we defend but the way go forward as well.................tentatively because are so vulnerable on the break.

Is it any wonder that Rosenior's form is starting to suffer? He must have thought he'd woken up in tortoise farm being surrounded Pearce, Doobs and Little

The thought of any of them having to deal with a pacy forwards is enough to persuade any full back that hoofing is a lot safer than going on an over lap.

[Woodcote Royal]

Are those results due to Bikey though ?

How does Ivar fit into the equation ? Or Marcus ?

We can't do anything about Ivar but sadly for Fed, I think we have to look at USA's absence as well now........................I couldn't help wondering if he'd have reached that Argyle piledriver.

[Sun Tzu]

A perceived lack of pace in central defence has had nothing to do with any of the goals we've conceded of late so how having bikey in the team would have solved a problem which hasn't raised it's head I fail to see.

Do you remember the goals we conceded against Forest and Plymouth?

Players running straight through our out-gunned midfield with two "slow as fcuk" centre halves backing off like the parting of the waves

.

I was at both games...
In both we saw a midfield runner go unchallenged through our midfield and shoot from long range. Our centre backs didn't get caught for pace and it's actually been quite rare that we've seen opposition forwards out pace them in any games this season. We've conceded a lot more goals through the full backs and from set pieces.
Having a different centre back might have prevented one or more of the goals, but only if they put a tackle in rather than retreating. Nothing to do with pace.
A different centre back may not have put in some of the tackles the current pairing have, and might have conceded more penalties - who knows.

[PEARCEY]

A perceived lack of pace in central defence has had nothing to do with any of the goals we've conceded of late so how having bikey in the team would have solved a problem which hasn't raised it's head I fail to see.

Do you remember the goals we conceded against Forest and Plymouth?

Players running straight through our out-gunned midfield with two "slow as fcuk" centre halves backing off like the parting of the waves

.

I was at both games...
In both we saw a midfield runner go unchallenged through our midfield and shoot from long range. Our centre backs didn't get caught for pace and it's actually been quite rare that we've seen opposition forwards out pace them in any games this season. We've conceded a lot more goals through the full backs and from set pieces.
Having a different centre back might have prevented one or more of the goals, but only if they put a tackle in rather than retreating. Nothing to do with pace.
A different centre back may not have put in some of the tackles the current pairing have, and might have conceded more penalties - who knows.

Pearce wasn't done for pace for Forest's goal but certainly failed to close the player down.
I'd say Duberry is the main culprit as he has been out of position in both of the last two games which have directly led to goals.
No-one is saying Bikey is a messiah.I well remember his punch drunk performance against QPR. He was so bad in that game it was hard to believe BUT he has turned in some superb peformances which well outweigh the poor ones.
We are leaking goals now and too many of them in recent games against weak opposition for a team challenging for promotion.
Change is now needed.

[Ian Royal]

Yep we've conceeded 3 virtually identical goals in the last 5 matches all at least partially due to Duberry ball watching or losing his man on the back post. I think his performances (certainly the ones I've seen) have been excellent in general,but it does rather seem that he is dropping the odd clanger and it is costing us a goal too often.

I happen to think Pearce has been less good overall, but his weaknesses have not so directly and obviously cost us goals. I fear for a partnership of Pearce and Bikey at the back. Pearce can get outmuscled a little too easily and his clearances don't always convince me. Add that in to Bikey's tendency to switch off after having some one in his pocket for 40 minutes, constant niggling kicks at people and potential to get sent off and it could be a problem.

I guess it's time we try it though, because what we've got right now isn't working well enough.

[glass half full]

It was a full moon Tuesday. Snowbs, do you have any stats for defensive 'howlers' on a full moon Tuesday?

[Huntley & Palmer]

Are those results due to Bikey though ?

How does Ivar fit into the equation ? Or Marcus ?

We can't do anything about Ivar but sadly for Fed, I think we have to look at USA's absence as well now........................I couldn't help wondering if he'd have reached that Argyle piledriver.

He wouldn't have got anywhere near it

[Woodcote Royal]

A perceived lack of pace in central defence has had nothing to do with any of the goals we've conceded of late so how having bikey in the team would have solved a problem which hasn't raised it's head I fail to see.

Do you remember the goals we conceded against Forest and Plymouth?

Players running straight through our out-gunned midfield with two "slow as fcuk" centre halves backing off like the parting of the waves

.

I was at both games...
In both we saw a midfield runner go unchallenged through our midfield and shoot from long range. Our centre backs didn't get caught for pace and it's actually been quite rare that we've seen opposition forwards out pace them in any games this season. We've conceded a lot more goals through the full backs and from set pieces.
Having a different centre back might have prevented one or more of the goals, but only if they put a tackle in rather than retreating. Nothing to do with pace.
A different centre back may not have put in some of the tackles the current pairing have, and might have conceded more penalties - who knows.

Slow centre backs avoid being done for pace by backing off................which is what Pearce and Duberry do when required.

This compounds the problerm of being lightweight/under manned in midfield making us very vulnerable through the centre.

All of our recent opponents have worked this out and exploited the weakness to good effect.

[Woodcote Royal]

Are those results due to Bikey though ?

How does Ivar fit into the equation ? Or Marcus ?

We can't do anything about Ivar but sadly for Fed, I think we have to look at USA's absence as well now........................I couldn't help wondering if he'd have reached that Argyle piledriver.

He wouldn't have got anywhere near it

We'll never know but I've seen him make similar saves in the past.

[Vision]

Yeah its as simple as that.

Bikey's last 3 appearances have been worse than the last 3 of Duberry and Pearce even allowing for Duberry's nightmare on Tuesday night. I'm not slagging him because as i say at his best he's the best we've got but he's not the Messiah

Sorry to Snowball you but here are the 7 previous matches before Bikey's sending off at Cardiff followed by our last 7. I know which I prefer even if our home defeat to Southampton was dissapointing to say the least.

Tue 21 Oct 08 CHAMPIONSHIP DONCASTER ROVER (H) W: 2-1
Sat 25 Oct 08 CHAMPIONSHIP QPR (H) D: 0-0
Tue 28 Oct 08 CHAMPIONSHIP BURNLEY (A) L: 0-1
Sat 1 Nov 08 CHAMPIONSHIP BRISTOL CITY (A) W: 4-1
Sat 8 Nov 08 CHAMPIONSHIP DERBY COUNTY (H) W: 3-0
Sat 15 Nov 08 CHAMPIONSHIP SHEFFIELD UNITED (A) W: 2-0
Sat 22 Nov 08 CHAMPIONSHIP SOUTHAMPTON (H) L: 1-2


Tue 27 Jan 09 CHAMPIONSHIP WOLVES (H) W: 1-0
Sat 31 Jan 09 CHAMPIONSHIP QPR (A) D: 0-0
Sat 7 Feb 09 CHAMPIONSHIP PRESTON NORTH END (H) L: 0-2
Sat 28 Feb 09 CHAMPIONSHIP NOTTINGHAM FOREST (H) L: 0-1
Tue 3 Mar 09 CHAMPIONSHIP SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY (A) W: 2-1
Sat 7 Mar 09 CHAMPIONSHIP PLYMOUTH ARGYLE (A) D: 2-2
Tue 10 Mar 09 CHAMPIONSHIP CHARLTON ATHLETIC (H) D: 2-2

You've Snowballed me alright especially in the quoting stats that are irrelevant to what i said.

Bikey's last 3 starts were
Home V Southampton - Dreadful, 1-2
Away to cardiff in the League - Given the absolute runaround before being sent off
Cardiff again in the cup - Utterly abysmal

I've already stated that at his best he's the best we've got but unless he's on his game and in the right frame of mind he's a liability which he was in those last 3. Now the defence has started leaking a few then the risk in bringing him back is not quite the same.
However when the defence was keeping several consecutive clean sheets in his absence (which they were) then bringing him back then,when by his own admission he wasn't 100%, would have been a risk.

[CMRoyal]

Are those results due to Bikey though ?

How does Ivar fit into the equation ? Or Marcus ?

Ivar was and is the biggest factor, in my opinion. Any of the other three will do so long as the big man's there. I think we're missing him badly.

[Huntley & Palmer]

We'll never know but I've seen him make similar saves in the past.

About five years ago maybe, his 'ample' frame would not allow him to get that high off of the ground

[Sun Tzu]

Slow centre backs avoid being done for pace by backing off................which is what Pearce and Duberry do when required.

This compounds the problerm of being lightweight/under manned in midfield making us very vulnerable through the centre.

All of our recent opponents have worked this out and exploited the weakness to good effect.

Really ?
Slow centre backs compensate by either playing deeper so the opponent doesn't have the space to run into or getting their tackles in early so there isn;t a 'pace' issue. Backing off just plays into the runner's hands - if you don't have the pace the last thing you do is compound the problem by allowing your opponent to run at you whilst you try and run backwards. Not denying we do back off, but it's not down to pace, it's poor decision making.
We've been caught a couple of times through the centre now but not by all our opponents. Goals against Forest and Plymouth but not against Sheff Wed or Charlton.

[Woodcote Royal]

Slow centre backs avoid being done for pace by backing off................which is what Pearce and Duberry do when required.

This compounds the problerm of being lightweight/under manned in midfield making us very vulnerable through the centre.

All of our recent opponents have worked this out and exploited the weakness to good effect.

Really ?
Slow centre backs compensate by either playing deeper so the opponent doesn't have the space to run into or getting their tackles in early so there isn;t a 'pace' issue. Backing off just plays into the runner's hands - if you don't have the pace the last thing you do is compound the problem by allowing your opponent to run at you whilst you try and run backwards. Not denying we do back off, but it's not down to pace, it's poor decision making.
We've been caught a couple of times through the centre now but not by all our opponents. Goals against Forest and Plymouth but not against Sheff Wed or Charlton.

Of course slow centre backs play deeper.....................that is part of the problem which creates the space for opponents to run into.

But, when faced with putting in a tackle or retreating, most will opt for the latter because, should the tackle fail, they will never catch the attacker.

Look at the goal we conceded at Birmingham.

We lost possession in midfield, Ingimarsson (also too slow these days but reads the game better than most) missed his tackle, Duberry backs off and Phillips buries the ball in the back of the net within seconds.

Had Bikey missed that tackle, he would have stood a good chance of getting back to help Doobs.

Off course backing off plays into the opposition hands but the only solution is to have some pace in your defence.