Hillsborough

[cmonurz]

definitely in my opninion Mr Pedant and its an opinion shared by lots of people. Just because there is no official number of confirmed cases doesn't mean it didn't happen, which is exactly the defence you, cmonurz, and other liveprool fans boast as a defence. Its difficult to put an exact number on something like that, by substantial I don't mean a majority of Liverpool fans.

Finerain, please have the common decency not to assign an opinion to me just because you know I follow Liverpool. I don't think I've ever posted at great length about HIllsborough on this board, mainly because of the number of twats trolling the subject for their own amusement. When I have (once I think, in response to Kes) it was even-handed and pointed blame at both sides.

What I do support is the fight to ensure that all information about this tragedy is made available to the wider public, something that thankfully now looks like it will happen.

[FiNeRaIn]

OK fair enough, my apologies. Can't argue with that post.

I also agree with the latter comments regarding making the information available.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

definitely in my opninion Mr Pedant and its an opinion shared by lots of people.
Just because there is no official number of confirmed cases doesn't mean it didn't happen, which is exactly the defence you, cmonurz, and other liveprool fans boast as a defence. Its difficult to put an exact number on something like that, by substantial I don't mean a majority of Liverpool fans.

so somebody who doesn't share you view is probably a Liverpool fan?


It should be fairly simple to have a fairly accurate idea of how many people were inside the ground before the gate was opened due to turnstile counts. It should also be fairly easy (if tedious) to do a headcount from cctv footage from outside the ground. That should at least give an estimate of how many extra fans there were.

If Leppings Lane held 11000, how many extra fans would be needed for the number to be significant?

Fans also could be somewhat dim back then, and didn't need to be drunk to do so.

The previous night, at Southend, some idiots in the Reading support thought the best way to get the stewards to let Reading fans out of the ground would be to push the other fans in front of them, creating a crush against the gates. Nobody actually got injured as I recall (although feeling you ribcage bend under the pressure isn't a pleasant experience) but that was only about 300 fans, and perhaps 10 people pushing. It really would take far fewer people pushing to create a crush than you might think.

[Jerry St Clair]

I get quite bored correcting the mountains of ill-informed opinion on Hillsborough, but I bite because if football supporters are happy to condemn their own then what hope do we have with convincing the rest of society that we're not all psychopathic hooligans?

Liverpool fans were not to blame for Hillsborough. At all. Simple. And you lot should know better.

[rfcjoe]

Did the police squash all them fans then? My bad.

[Jerry St Clair]

Did the police squash all them fans then? My bad.

Yes.

Next?

[rfcjoe]

DeLOLuded.

[No Fixed Abode]

definitely in my opninion Mr Pedant and its an opinion shared by lots of people. Just because there is no official number of confirmed cases doesn't mean it didn't happen, which is exactly the defence you, cmonurz, and other liveprool fans boast as a defence. Its difficult to put an exact number on something like that, by substantial I don't mean a majority of Liverpool fans.

Finerain, please have the common decency not to assign an opinion to me just because you know I follow Liverpool. I don't think I've ever posted at great length about HIllsborough on this board, mainly because of the number of twats trolling the subject for their own amusement. When I have (once I think, in response to Kes) it was even-handed and pointed blame at both sides.

What I do support is the fight to ensure that all information about this tragedy is made available to the wider public, something that thankfully now looks like it will happen.

The problem is (with most Liverpool fans), if you say anything other than it was all the police's fault, then you are trolling. Early indications from the leaked info are that drunken Liverpool fans were indeed partly to blame for the incident. So what happens if this is the case? Find those Liverpool fans responsible and take appropriate action? Put them in stocks for other Liverpool fans to seek 'justice'?

Liverpool could come out of this looking a little silly. Could be many fans that still go and watch Liverpool, knowing their actions could have played a part in killing fellow Liverpool fans.

[Silver Fox]

FFS Kes, you do know why people think your trolling don't you?

[No Fixed Abode]

FFS Kes, you do know why people think your trolling don't you?

No, no I don't.

[Hoop Blah]

The problem is (with most Liverpool fans), if you say anything other than it was all the police's fault, then you are trolling. Early indications from the leaked info are that drunken Liverpool fans were indeed partly to blame for the incident.

That's not quite the case though is it? The leaked information is that someone from the Police tried to blame the drunken Liverpool fans, not that it actually was their fault.

[watfordroyal]

Agree with all that, other than
Don't think they lied about fans being drunk, certainly not all, but many many would have been..

Many would have had a beer, but that's not the same as being drunk.

Loads of fans have a beer before going into the Madejski, but how many do you see who have noticeably been drinking?

Coz of better stewarding, you can't get in now if drunk, or you'll very soon get ejected once inside.

Need to ask the question,
If there had been a complete drinking ban, would it have happened?

[Hoop Blah]

FFS Kes, you do know why people think your trolling don't you?

I always gave him credit that he wasn't such a cock in real life, and it was just his HNA persona.

Turns out I was a bit wide of the mark there, he's as boring with his 'mates' on Facebook as well.

[No Fixed Abode]

FFS Kes, you do know why people think your trolling don't you?

I always gave him credit that he wasn't such a cock in real life, and it was just his HNA persona.

Turns out I was a bit wide of the mark there, he's as boring with his 'mates' on Facebook as well.

**Stalker alert**

This worries me if I'm honest.

[No Fixed Abode]

The problem is (with most Liverpool fans), if you say anything other than it was all the police's fault, then you are trolling. Early indications from the leaked info are that drunken Liverpool fans were indeed partly to blame for the incident.

That's not quite the case though is it? The leaked information is that someone from the Police tried to blame the drunken Liverpool fans, not that it actually was their fault.

So the police's opinion doesn't matter and should be disregarded?

[PieEater]

So the police's opinion doesn't matter and should be disregarded?

In this case because it has been found out to be entirely false, then yes. Their opinion was that the Liverpool fans were all drunken thugs out for a brawl, all their actions that day had that that in mind and they were blind to what a disaster they had caused.

Why did they decide the best response to fans trying to escape the crush was to push them back in, then cordon off the pitch and prevent the injured getting to the ambulances, and then stop the ambulances from getting in? There were 44 ambulances there and only 1 got in, most of those that died never even made it to hospital.

But you know all this don't you, and you'd rather that cheap shots at the fans rather than castigate the police for their total mishandling of it.

[Hoop Blah]

FFS Kes, you do know why people think your trolling don't you?

I always gave him credit that he wasn't such a cock in real life, and it was just his HNA persona.

Turns out I was a bit wide of the mark there, he's as boring with his 'mates' on Facebook as well.

**Stalker alert**

This worries me if I'm honest.

Hardly....

Posted the link on my mates facebook wall to be greeted by a response from a mutual friend saying "Kes give it a rest and grow up".

I notice you didn't feel the need to deny it though.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Agree with all that, other than
Don't think they lied about fans being drunk, certainly not all, but many many would have been..

Many would have had a beer, but that's not the same as being drunk.

Loads of fans have a beer before going into the Madejski, but how many do you see who have noticeably been drinking?

Coz of better stewarding, you can't get in now if drunk, or you'll very soon get ejected once inside.

Need to ask the question,
If there had been a complete drinking ban, would it have happened?

You weren't allowed in drunk then either. It was also rare that you could get a beer in the ground.

Overall though, the point was that having a drink doesn't equate to being drunk. There were undoubtedly loads of fans who had a drink before the game, but that doesn't mean there were loads of drunk fans.

[No Fixed Abode]

We all know that having a drink doesn't always equate to being drunk. However, if you're out in public and something happens like this, then having consumed alcohol is hardly going to help your case is it?

It's very naive to suggest there weren't quite a few drunk people there.

FA Cup semi-final
Sunny day
40,000+ people there

[John Madejski's Wallet]

You weren't allowed in drunk then either. It was also rare that you could get a beer in the ground.

Overall though, the point was that having a drink doesn't equate to being drunk. There were undoubtedly loads of fans who had a drink before the game, but that doesn't mean there were loads of drunk fans.

A good mate of lived near the ground and was at home that day.

He said he knew something bad was going to happen (obvs not what did happen, he just assumed it would kick-off in a bad way), due to how many heavily p*ssed-up and aggressive liverpool fans had descended on the place. He said the atmosphere in the streets around before the game was really nasty and ominous


Just saying like