World Cup Finals Draw

[Thaumagurist*]

What have Italy won since 1998 that England haven't come close to?

The final of which competition has Italy played in, since 1998 (indeed ever), that England haven't.

I was talking about our games against them, not comparing our achievements with theirs.

If we beat them when it matters, how have they won more shiny things than us?

Did I say we beat them?

[papereyes]

What the fuck are you arguing about then?

There's a reason why these teams are seen as better than England.

[Thaumagurist*]

I was not making an argument about being better than them, I was trying to show how many times we have played these teams. We haven't played the Italians very often in the past decade. Therefore making a judgement about whether we're better or worse than the Italians based on our games against them seems a bit meaningless.

[readingbedding]

England have only lost matches in the World Cup by the odd goal for well over 40 years now.
Small margins, but that's the way it goes.
Surely we have the players, and now a decent coach ready to make a real impact on the WC.
I've been saying this for a long time mind.

Our competative history (certainly since 1970) against Italy does not hold up too good.
At all.

[cmonurz]

I was not making an argument about being better than them, I was trying to show how many times we have played these teams. We haven't played the Italians very often in the past decade. Therefore making a judgement about whether we're better or worse than the Italians based on our games against them seems a bit meaningless.

But that's the nature of the big tournaments. We hardly play in World Cup Finals matches either, just once every four years. Winning the tournament is about rising to the occasion. Beating a side like Italy is about doing the same, and its something we have consistently failed to do, certainly in the last 15 years or so.

[soggy biscuit]

England have only lost matches in the World Cup by the odd goal for well over 40 years now.

losing by 'the odd goal' is still losing, no?

[readingbedding]

What do you think?

[cmonurz]

An empty room would argue with itself just to avoid arguing with readingbedding.

[bobbybottler]

I can't actually remember England ever beating Portugal btw

I couldn't either, so I used this:

http://www.englandstats.com/search.php?q=search_opp

which reminded me of Shearer blasting home the last in the 3-0 win in 1998 and of no other wins whilst I've been alive.

[rhroyal]

I was not making an argument about being better than them, I was trying to show how many times we have played these teams. We haven't played the Italians very often in the past decade. Therefore making a judgement about whether we're better or worse than the Italians based on our games against them seems a bit meaningless.

But that's the nature of the big tournaments. We hardly play in World Cup Finals matches either, just once every four years. Winning the tournament is about rising to the occasion. Beating a side like Italy is about doing the same, and its something we have consistently failed to do, certainly in the last 15 years or so.

It's always hard to tell from qualifying campaigns such as our most recent one, where the players were seldom put under great pressure. However I get the impression that Capello has got this England side coping with pressure when compared to recent regimes. That will count for a lot in the WC. Being able to perform to your best on the biggest stage counts for more than your "potential" ability - which England have had in abundance for years with the likes of Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Cole, Terry, Owen, Beckham etc.

Why do the Germans always do well at big tournaments no matter how shit their squad appears on paper? And why do they always win penalty shoot outs? They're mentally tough. Why do we always out in limp performances before going put by the odd goal or penalties? Because we're not.

Hopefully Capello has helped change this.

[PlasticRoyale]

Have we got a song recorded yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0kgg5tWhY8