Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

No-one is sweeping anything under the carpet, the deficiencies of all our strikers have been highlighted at some point, but your intense paranoia can't appear to deal with people having different opinions.

Not "paranoia" at all.

FOR HIS RECORD (and given his age) Long gets a raw deal from too-many fans. That is all.



I am SOooooo going to enjoy watching Long proving you all wrong.

Ian Royal will (then) have always believed in him.






Kebe, anyone?

[Ian Royal]

Oh I don't know snowball, maybe it's because footballers couldn't really give two shits about the sort of stats you throw about. Because they have faith in their abilities. Because there isn't a great deal more on. Because if you try something every now and then, even if you aren't great at it or it fails, the defence has to be prepared for it, maybe giving you a better chance of sliding a pass through, or going outside and getting a cross in next time.

That's the sort of thing your stats can never give information on. Which is why they should only ever influence an opinion, not form it.

snowball. I change my opinion based on the evidence. I have changed my mind about plenty of players in the past. I'll change my opinion on plenty more in the future, but only when they give me reason to. And I never pretend I've always liked a player if I haven't. What would be the point?

[Wycombe Royal]

Hey, if we are taking out Premiership goals and games, I'm up for that.

You agree Doyle had two INCREDIBLE seasons?

He was absolutely FLYING in 2005-6 in a record-breaking side (which would obviously make it easier to score)
and he had a very good season in the year following relegation. OK so far? He's a top top man and sold for 6.5 Million
He's also 3.3 years older than Long.

Let's compare Doyle and Long. Let's remember that this team is not a patch on the 2005-6 team
and last season we were absolute pants for half a season, but no matter

Obviously Doyle will come out better, and he does.

6,042 Minutes for 22 Goals. A Goal every 274 minutes (3 Games) Shane
7,530 Minutes for 37 Goals. A Goal every 203 minutes (2 Games and 23 Minutes) = 6.5 MILLION


Sorry, for a relative kid playing most of those minutes in a mid-table side that "274 minutes" looks GREAT
when compared with Doyle's 203, a hit-rate achieved in a season where he was in the best-ever Championship
team, and a second season with a number of top, Premiership quality players, and we came 4th.

Now stand up like men and admit that Long doesn't look that shabby after all

Yet again you miss my point. My point is that even if Long does reach 55 goals in the same or less matches than Doyle it won't mean much as they will have played alot of their matches at different levels. I don't care what they have done in their past or how old they were, etc......so you can provide all the pointless stats that you like (and you have done before). You can post them as many times as you like, in as many different rehashed forms as you like. I know what I see with my own eyes and Shane Long is still not half the player kevin Doyle was for us.

[Snowball]

And haven't we been arguing that Long does a great job OUTSIDE scoring?

And isn't Long playing in a far weaker team? And mostly in a sterile 451?


and, HELLOooooooo Long has three years and 4 months to catch up to Doyle.

So big deal Doyle got 19 goals. In a side scoring 111 = 17% appearing 43 (8) Times 3870 Minutes

Long's last two seasons he appeared for a total of 4199 minutes for 18 Goals

3870 minutes 19 Goals 203 minutes per goal
4199 minutes 18 goals 233 minutes per goal

That isn't a huge difference

[Snowball]

Yet again you miss my point. My point is that even if Long does reach 55 goals in the same or less matches than Doyle it won't mean much as they will have played alot of their matches at different levels. I don't care what they have done in their past or how old they were, etc......so you can provide all the pointless stats that you like (and you have done before). You can post them as many times as you like, in as many different rehashed forms as you like. I know what I see with my own eyes and Shane Long is still not half the player kevin Doyle was for us.

Jeez, I just gave you a comparison EXCLUDING Premiership games and you say that?

[Wycombe Royal]

You were the one who was going on about Long reaching Doyles total of 55 goals in the same or less matches. Now you are being selective with your stats again. I wonder which way the wind will blow next.......

And like I said I don't care that Long is younger and you could actually argue that Long has had more opportunity of playing in English football as he started at a younger age. Therefore his development is obviously a lot slower than Doyles......

[roadrunner]

Yet again you miss my point. My point is that even if Long does reach 55 goals in the same or less matches than Doyle it won't mean much as they will have played alot of their matches at different levels. I don't care what they have done in their past or how old they were, etc......so you can provide all the pointless stats that you like (and you have done before). You can post them as many times as you like, in as many different rehashed forms as you like. I know what I see with my own eyes and Shane Long is still not half the player kevin Doyle was for us.

Jeez, I just gave you a comparison EXCLUDING Premiership games and you say that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2hapwnFwaE

[Snowball]

9,630 Premiership Minutes for 28 Goals = 1 Goal every 344 Minutes Doyle
2,121 Premiership Minutes for 05 Goals = 1 Goal every 424 Minutes Long

And Long is 3 Years 4 Months younger.

[roadrunner]

9,630 Premiership Minutes for 28 Goals = 1 Goal every 344 Minutes Doyle
2,121 Premiership Minutes for 05 Goals = 1 Goal every 424 Minutes Long

And Long is 3 Years 4 Months younger.

GET A SODDING GIRLFRIEND, DAVE.

[andrew1957]

9,630 Premiership Minutes for 28 Goals = 1 Goal every 344 Minutes Doyle
2,121 Premiership Minutes for 05 Goals = 1 Goal every 424 Minutes Long

And Long is 3 Years 4 Months younger.

Hi Snowball

I like Long but he will never be at the same level as Doyle. Doyle could arguably play for a top 6 PL side but Long never will.

[roadrunner]

9,630 Premiership Minutes for 28 Goals = 1 Goal every 344 Minutes Doyle
2,121 Premiership Minutes for 05 Goals = 1 Goal every 424 Minutes Long

And Long is 3 Years 4 Months younger.

Hi Snowball

I like Long but he will never be at the same level as Doyle. Doyle could arguably play for a top 6 PL side but Long never will.

Disagree, Long is destined for a top six 3rd division club.

[cmonurz]

No-one is sweeping anything under the carpet, the deficiencies of all our strikers have been highlighted at some point, but your intense paranoia can't appear to deal with people having different opinions.

Not "paranoia" at all.

FOR HIS RECORD (and given his age) Long gets a raw deal from too-many fans. That is all.



I am SOooooo going to enjoy watching Long proving you all wrong.
Ian Royal will (then) have always believed in him.






Kebe, anyone?

When is this going to happen? I need to know when to get my humble pie out to defrost.

[Wycombe Royal]

9,630 Premiership Minutes for 28 Goals = 1 Goal every 344 Minutes Doyle
2,121 Premiership Minutes for 05 Goals = 1 Goal every 424 Minutes Long

And Long is 3 Years 4 Months younger.

How long has Long been in English football? How Long has Doyle been in English football? Which player developed quicker?

This comparison between Doyle and Long is stupid, pointless and achieves nothing but I'm sure you'll come back with the same stats again in different format to again prove that you have "issues".....

[Snowball]

You were the one who was going on about Long reaching Doyles total of 55 goals in the same or less matches. Now you are being selective with your stats again. I wonder which way the wind will blow next....... And like I said I don't care that Long is younger and you could actually argue that Long has had more opportunity of playing in English football as he started at a younger age. Therefore his development is obviously a lot slower than Doyles......

There is nothing "selective" there.

You have "all minutes" Championship, Cups, Premiership combined

You have Championship years only

You have Premiership only

SEE? Not selectivity, just finer detail.


And what does it show? It shows that there is NOT a large difference between Shane and Kevin in the Championship goals/minutes,

[cmonurz]

9,630 Premiership Minutes for 28 Goals = 1 Goal every 344 Minutes Doyle
2,121 Premiership Minutes for 05 Goals = 1 Goal every 424 Minutes Long

And Long is 3 Years 4 Months younger.

So Doyle sustained a significantly better scoring record than Long (each goal scored 80 minutes sooner) over a time period over 4 times as long as his counterpart?

I don't see how you think those stats are comparable.

[Wycombe Royal]

You were the one who was going on about Long reaching Doyles total of 55 goals in the same or less matches. Now you are being selective with your stats again. I wonder which way the wind will blow next....... And like I said I don't care that Long is younger and you could actually argue that Long has had more opportunity of playing in English football as he started at a younger age. Therefore his development is obviously a lot slower than Doyles......

There is nothing "selective" there.

You have "all minutes" Championship, Cups, Premiership combined

You have Championship years only

You have Premiership only

SEE? Not selectivity, just finer detail.


And what does it show? It shows that there is NOT a large difference between Shane and Kevin in the Championship goals/minutes,

Like I said I don't care about the stats and i can have a discussion without using them. I have eyes, I don't need stats to form an opinion and I also don't have blinkers that make me almost blind.

[Snowball]

I made a rather important error in my calculations.

In the two Premiership years I had Shane down as 2,121 Minutes

I had removed his cup GOALS but not the Cup Minutes played

In actual factual minutes in the Premiership, Long has scored better than Doyle


1,641 Premiership Minutes for 05 Premiership Goals = 1 Goal every 328 Minutes LONG
9,630 Premiership Minutes for 28 Premiership Goals = 1 Goal every 344 Minutes Doyle


You might see that better if you just multiply Long's minutes by 6 to compare like for like


9,846 Premiership Minutes for 30 Premiership Goals = 1 Goal every 328 Minutes LONG
9,630 Premiership Minutes for 28 Premiership Goals = 1 Goal every 344 Minutes Doyle

[Snowball]

9,630 Premiership Minutes for 28 Goals = 1 Goal every 344 Minutes Doyle
2,121 Premiership Minutes for 05 Goals = 1 Goal every 424 Minutes Long

And Long is 3 Years 4 Months younger.

So Doyle sustained a significantly better scoring record than Long (each goal scored 80 minutes sooner) over a time period over 4 times as long as his counterpart?

I don't see how you think those stats are comparable.

Er, no. I had removed Long's cup goals in the Premiership seasons but not his minutes.\\


The corrected minutes has Long BETTER on goals per minute than Doyle


Can I presume that as you thought the stats showed something
when DOYLE was the winner, you'll now admit that Long is the winner?

Or do you know start adding codicils?

[cmonurz]

Seen as the point of my post was that Doyle sustained his scoring rate for over 4 (now in fact 6) times as long on the pitch, my original point stands, and I don't know how you reached that conclusion.

[Ian Royal]

LOL @ extrapolating Long's goals in the Premier League to compare them to Doyle by just multiplying them by 6!!

Especially where there's a fairly strong chance Long won't manage even half the Premier League time on the pitch in his entire career, that Doyle has already.