Ups & Downs 2021/22

[Winston Biscuit]

Forest for 2nd and Luton for play offs for me

[Mr Angry]

Have posted before, the thing about yo-yo clubs is somewhat of a myth, perpetuated by the admitted yoyo-ness of Norwich and Fulham, and probably WBA's relatively recent bouncing around. They are the only clubs with repeat promotions in the last six years. 16 of the last 18 clubs promoted to the PL have been different. That could become 18 of 21 if two of Forest, Luton or Blackburn find their way to promotion this season.

20/21
Norwich
Watford
Brentford

19/20
Leeds
West Brom
Fulham

18/19
Norwich
Sheffield United
Aston Villa

17/18
Wolves
Cardiff
Fulham

16/17
Newcastle
Brighton
Huddersfield

15/16
Burnley
Middlesbrough
Hull

Being a bit selective with the Years chosen there Stranded......

Take 14/15
Bournemouth
Norwich
Crystal Palace

13/14
Leicester
Burnley
QPR

12/13
Cardiff
Hull
Watford

Transpose that list against those relegated from the Premier League:

2020/21
Fulham
West Brom
Shef Utd

2019/20
Bournemouth
Watford
Norwich

2018/19
Cardiff
Fulham
Huddersfield

2017/18
Swansea
Stoke
West Brom

2016/17
Hull
Middlesborough
Sunderland

2015/16
Newcastle
Norwich
Aston Villa

2014/15
Hull
Burnley
QPR

2013/14
Norwich
Fulham
Cardiff

The following have had at least 1 relegation and 1 promotion in the 9 completed seasons since 2012/13..............................................

Norwich - 3 relegations (and likely another this season), 3 promotions
Fulham - 3 & 2 (3 promotions if we include this season)
Cardiff - 2 & 2
Hull - 2 & 2
Watford - 1 (likely to be another this season) & 3
QPR - 1 & 1
Burnley - 1 & 2
Newcastle - 1 & 1
Villa - 1 & 1
Middlesboro - 1 & 1
Huddersfield - 1 & 1
Shef Utd - 1 & 1
West Brom - 2 & 1

[Pepe the Horseman]

Been in the doldrums for years, i wont begrudge them a place in the Premier League.

Out of anybody who is in the playoffs, I want Luton to go up
What a story that would be, up there with Blackpool

I'm usually behind the underdogs, but I don't particularly like Luton and I'm not sure why. Having said that, there isn't anyone else in the top 6 I'd want to win it. Maybe Blackburn or Millwall if they sneak in. Millwall v Luton PO final would be fun.

[Mr Angry]

For me, Forest to just pip Bournemouth on the last day on GD and go up as auto, and then Huddersfield to beat Bournemouth in the Play Off Final after a penalty shoot out following a dull, boring 0-0 after 120 minutes.

[Sanguine]

Have posted before, the thing about yo-yo clubs is somewhat of a myth, perpetuated by the admitted yoyo-ness of Norwich and Fulham, and probably WBA's relatively recent bouncing around. They are the only clubs with repeat promotions in the last six years. 16 of the last 18 clubs promoted to the PL have been different. That could become 18 of 21 if two of Forest, Luton or Blackburn find their way to promotion this season.

20/21
Norwich
Watford
Brentford

19/20
Leeds
West Brom
Fulham

18/19
Norwich
Sheffield United
Aston Villa

17/18
Wolves
Cardiff
Fulham

16/17
Newcastle
Brighton
Huddersfield

15/16
Burnley
Middlesbrough
Hull

Being a bit selective with the Years chosen there Stranded......

Take 14/15
Bournemouth
Norwich
Crystal Palace

13/14
Leicester
Burnley
QPR

12/13
Cardiff
Hull
Watford

Transpose that list against those relegated from the Premier League:

2020/21
Fulham
West Brom
Shef Utd

2019/20
Bournemouth
Watford
Norwich

2018/19
Cardiff
Fulham
Huddersfield

2017/18
Swansea
Stoke
West Brom

2016/17
Hull
Middlesborough
Sunderland

2015/16
Newcastle
Norwich
Aston Villa

2014/15
Hull
Burnley
QPR

2013/14
Norwich
Fulham
Cardiff

The following have had at least 1 relegation and 1 promotion in the 9 completed seasons since 2012/13..............................................

Norwich - 3 relegations (and likely another this season), 3 promotions
Fulham - 3 & 2 (3 promotions if we include this season)
Cardiff - 2 & 2
Hull - 2 & 2
Watford - 1 (likely to be another this season) & 3
QPR - 1 & 1
Burnley - 1 & 2
Newcastle - 1 & 1
Villa - 1 & 1
Middlesboro - 1 & 1
Huddersfield - 1 & 1
Shef Utd - 1 & 1
West Brom - 2 & 1

Hardly selective, I just chose a few years, went for six and got bored. Can see for your list though that going back another two years and you include Bournemouth, Palace, Leicester and QPR, so that's 20 out of 24 different teams getting promoted across eight seasons (and as I said, potentially Forest/Luton/Blackburn to come). Can hardly claim the PL is some sort of closed shop when an entire division has been promoted to it in less than a decade.

Of course it is hard to stay there, and it should be - but your point was that parachute payments made it easier to get promoted. Were that purely the case driving promotion, we wouldn't have seen so many successful Championship sides.

[Mr Angry]

There have been 6 teams that have only been promoted to the Prem in those 8 or 9 years and there are obviously new teams who come into it, but the point I was trying to make (probably incoherently!) is that the tendency (not every case) is that promoted teams are those who had been relegated from the Prem in the previous 3 or 4 years, thus taking advantage of the parachute payments (I think they were for 4 years until about 2015/16).

Would anyone be shocked to see Watford, Norwich and say Everton in the Championship top 6 next season?

[Franchise FC]

They only deserve their place in the Premier League if they earn it this season.

No one deserves anything based on historical records.

Absolutely

Is PTR part of the Juventus/Barcelona/Real Madrid PR department ?

[Sanguine]

I don't particularly like Luton and I'm not sure why.

Away end seating so narrow my knees took a bashing from the seat in front doesn't help. And I'm only 6ft tall. Not sure on the year, James Harper own goal right in front of us.

[Sutekh]

I'm usually behind the underdogs, but I don't particularly like Luton and I'm not sure why. Having said that, there isn't anyone else in the top 6 I'd want to win it. Maybe Blackburn or Millwall if they sneak in. Millwall v Luton PO final would be fun.

[paultheroyal]

I don't particularly like Luton and I'm not sure why.

Away end seating so narrow my knees took a bashing from the seat in front doesn't help. And I'm only 6ft tall. Not sure on the year, James Harper own goal right in front of us.

Worse than QPR?

Always wanted to go to Luton's ground and now will get that joy - think i will be aiming for the front and putting my legs over the barriers!

[Sanguine]

I don't particularly like Luton and I'm not sure why.

Away end seating so narrow my knees took a bashing from the seat in front doesn't help. And I'm only 6ft tall. Not sure on the year, James Harper own goal right in front of us.

Worse than QPR?

Always wanted to go to Luton's ground and now will get that joy - think i will be aiming for the front and putting my legs over the barriers!

I also returned to a parking ticket, whilst a mate was sick in the back of my car (didn't spill a drop, straight into the magazine pocket on the back of the passenger seat), so all in all a bad experience.

[RG30]

Possibility that 1 one of Wycombe or Plymouth miss out on the playoffs despite getting 80+ points which seems ridiculously high and very unlucky. Would this be a record not to get in?

[URZZZZ]

Possibility that 1 one of Wycombe or Plymouth miss out on the playoffs despite getting 80+ points which seems ridiculously high and very unlucky. Would this be a record not to get in?

It’s also possible that Sheffield/Sunderland don’t either

[Winston Biscuit]

Possibility that 1 one of Wycombe or Plymouth miss out on the playoffs despite getting 80+ points which seems ridiculously high and very unlucky. Would this be a record not to get in?

I assume Plymouth as they are playing MK Dons who for much of last night were heading into the final day with nothing to play for and could have even rested some players for the upcoming play offs, but a late Sunderland goal meant Rotherham didn't go up (due to GD) and now the weekend is a massive game for the MK Dons

[Loafer]

I was under the assumption Plymouth were Coasting in League 1 for ages and were guaranteed to go up. Obviously not keeping up.

[Sanguine]

Possibility that 1 one of Wycombe or Plymouth miss out on the playoffs despite getting 80+ points which seems ridiculously high and very unlucky. Would this be a record not to get in?

Oxford's 75 points, they are already guaranteed to miss out, would have got them into the playoffs in each of the last 11 seasons. 83 points this time might still only be good enough for 7th. Huddersfield just made the play-offs in 2009-10 with 80 points, which is the only other season since the play-offs were introduced that such a total has been good enough only for 6th in League One.

In 1997-98, Sunderland got 90 points but only finished third, and then failed in the play-offs. They also got 85 points and finished 5th in 2018-19 (again losing in the play-offs) albeit they were well clear of Doncaster in 6th (73).

[Pepe the Horseman]

What's the lowest points a team has stayed up on in the Champ? We're surely gonna come close.

[Stranded]

What's the lowest points a team has stayed up on in the Champ? We're surely gonna come close.

I think the lowest a team has finished on is 43 but there have been a couple of years where 40 would have been enough.

So we need 1 more win to get past that although we are already on 47 if you go by points actually won.

[Sutekh]

What's the lowest points a team has stayed up on in the Champ? We're surely gonna come close.

I think the lowest a team has finished on is 43 but there have been a couple of years where 40 would have been enough.

So we need 1 more win to get past that although we are already on 47 if you go by points actually won.

Which is the point in Reading’s case. Reading have won 47 points from the league games played this season so have already got more than the lowest figure a club at this level (since a 46 game and 3 points for a win season was introduced in 1988-89).

Since that season the number of points that the club in the highest relegation position achieved (together with the points of the last surviving club in the division) is as follows:

89/90 - 48 (50)
90/91 - 48 (50) - only 2 teams relegated in this season the club in 21st also achieved 50 points
91/92 - 48 (50)
92/93 - 49 (50)
93/94 - 51 (51) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 52 points
94/95 - 48 (54)
95/96 - 52 (52) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 53 points
96/97 - 46 (48) - the first time less than 50 points was enough
97/98 - 48 (49)
98/99 - 47 (47) - a better goal difference kept the 21st, 20th and 19th placed teams up otherwise safety was 48 points
99/00 - 46 (49)
00/01 - 48 (49)
01/02 - 49 (49) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 50 points
02/03 - 46 (50)
03/04 - 51 (51) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 52 points
04/05 - 50 (50) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 51 points
05/06 - 42 (50)
06/07 - 42 (49)
07/08 - 52 (53)
08/09 - 46 (51)
09/10 - 47 (49) - club in 21st had had received 10 point deduction, club in 20th had 52 points
10/11 - 42 (48)
11/12 - 40 (48) - first time a figure as low as 41 points would have been enough for safety
12/13 - 54 (55) -
13/14 - 44 (44) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 46 points
14/15 - 41 (46)
15/16 - 40 (49)
16/17 - 51 (51) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 52 points
17/18 - 41 (43)
18/19 - 40 (44)
19/20 - 48 (49) - club in 22nd had had received 12 point deduction, club in 20th had 50 points
20/21 - 43 (44)
21/22 - 34 (41) - currently could get to 40 (41)

So, to date, 41 points is the lowest figure on which a club could have survived in division 2 under a 46 game season and if Reading get no more than 1 point from their remaining games then they’ll achieve the unwanted(?) record of lowest number of points recorded in surviving a season at the aforementioned 46 game division 2 level.

[South Coast Royal]

What's the lowest points a team has stayed up on in the Champ? We're surely gonna come close.

I think the lowest a team has finished on is 43 but there have been a couple of years where 40 would have been enough.

So we need 1 more win to get past that although we are already on 47 if you go by points actually won.

Which is the point in Reading’s case. Reading have won 47 points from the league games played this season so have already got more than the lowest figure a club at this level (since a 46 game and 3 points for a win season was introduced in 1988-89).

Since that season the number of points that the club in the highest relegation position achieved (together with the points of the last surviving club in the division) is as follows:

89/90 - 48 (50)
90/91 - 48 (50) - only 2 teams relegated in this season the club in 21st also achieved 50 points
91/92 - 48 (50)
92/93 - 49 (50)
93/94 - 51 (51) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 52 points
94/95 - 48 (54)
95/96 - 52 (52) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 53 points
96/97 - 46 (48) - the first time less than 50 points was enough
97/98 - 48 (49)
98/99 - 47 (47) - a better goal difference kept the 21st, 20th and 19th placed teams up otherwise safety was 48 points
99/00 - 46 (49)
00/01 - 48 (49)
01/02 - 49 (49) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 50 points
02/03 - 46 (50)
03/04 - 51 (51) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 52 points
04/05 - 50 (50) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 51 points
05/06 - 42 (50)
06/07 - 42 (49)
07/08 - 52 (53)
08/09 - 46 (51)
09/10 - 47 (49) - club in 21st had had received 10 point deduction, club in 20th had 52 points
10/11 - 42 (48)
11/12 - 40 (48) - first time a figure as low as 41 points would have been enough for safety
12/13 - 54 (55) -
13/14 - 44 (44) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 46 points
14/15 - 41 (46)
15/16 - 40 (49)
16/17 - 51 (51) - a better goal difference kept the 21st placed team up, otherwise safety was 52 points
17/18 - 41 (43)
18/19 - 40 (44)
19/20 - 48 (49) - club in 22nd had had received 12 point deduction, club in 20th had 50 points
20/21 - 43 (44)
21/22 - 34 (41) - currently could get to 40 (41)

So, to date, 41 points is the lowest figure on which a club could have survived in division 2 under a 46 game season and if Reading get no more than 1 point from their remaining games then they’ll achieve the unwanted(?) record of lowest number of points recorded in surviving a season at the aforementioned 46 game division 2 level.

Oh well, that would mean being holders of the top and bottom records at this level.