Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

Can you give us that list of Championship strikers scoring rates please.

Nope. Do the work yourself.

[cmonurz]

Can you give us that list of Championship strikers scoring rates please.

Nope. Do the work yourself.

You told Wycombe Royal you had the list. So show us how Long compares.

[Ian Royal]

I think you've just shown that Shane Long was as good as an unfit, lacking in match practice Dave Kitson.

Talk about damning someone with faint praise.

[Wimb]

I think you've just shown that Shane Long was as good as an unfit, lacking in match practice Dave Kitson.

Talk about damning someone with faint praise.

[Snowball]

I'll excuse Kitson because his form for the 3 seasons before proved he was a consistant goalscorer and it was plain to see his injury was affecting him, there's obviously no stat that can prove it, only what I saw with my eyes.

You mean rose-tinted glasses let's you excuse him.

And 2008-09 what excuse for that year?
And 2009-10 what excuse for that year at Stoke? What excuse for a meagre 2 goals in 10 games where he came as our saviour and strolled around?
And 2010-11 now he's 4 in 14 or something?

0-1-0-0-2-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0.. Kitson, Playing for "The best first-eleven in the Championship"
0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-1-0-1 Long

There y'go. Blows Shane away dunnit? 5.5 Million

[Snowball]

You told Wycombe Royal you had the list. So show us how Long compares.

Did I? I said I have the figures. So do you. So does anyone. It just takes time to collate.


Kitson that nasty Stoke manager didn't like him (he just paid 5.5 Million for him)
Doyle - overworked, too relied upon
Lita, nobody liked him cos he is ug-lee
Maynard bad year (His Mum wasn't well)


etc

etc

Every striker I'd put up and show a bad year or whatever, every one would have a different excuse. Except Long. If Long has a drought it's cos he's shit.

[Wimb]

Where have I said Kitson is great now? what does that have to do with Long?

I said Kitson had 3 great years before he got that injury, then had a good season the full season after it. Long has yet to have one great season so you can't yet compare the two.

[Snowball]

I think you've just shown that Shane Long was as good as an unfit, lacking in match practice Dave Kitson.

Talk about damning someone with faint praise.

Hi Palmela

I showed that a 19-Year old player playing the same amount of starts, as a SELECTED
(and therefore should be fit) player SEVEN YEARS his senior, with VAST experience,
matched him goal for goal. FACT.

You will, of course, excuse the demi-God who went on to glory at Stoke, OH.... he didn't

18 Appearances in 2008-09 for, wait for it, wait for it. 00000000000000000000000000000000000000 Goals. Quality!

But then he came and got us promoted..... 2 goals in ten... so that season 2 goals TOTAL in 28 Appearances. What's his name, Long?


I meant glory at Portsmouth, OH, he didn't there either....



So basically he's been rubbish since 2007-08

[Wimb]

I think you've just shown that Shane Long was as good as an unfit, lacking in match practice Dave Kitson.

Talk about damning someone with faint praise.

Hi Palmela

I showed that a 19-Year old player playing the same amount of starts, as a SELECTED
(and therefore should be fit) player SEVEN YEARS his senior, with VAST experience,
matched him goal for goal. FACT.

You will, of course, excuse the demi-God who went on to glory at Stoke, OH.... he didn't

18 Appearances in 2008-09 for, wait for it, wait for it. 00000000000000000000000000000000000000 Goals. Quality!

But then he came and got us promoted..... 2 goals in ten... so that season 2 goals TOTAL in 28 Appearances. What's his name, Long?


I meant glory at Portsmouth, OH, he didn't there either...



So basically he's been rubbish since 2007-08

So you're saying a striker with 4 open play goals in the Championship this year is rubbish? god what does that leave a striker with say... 1 goal from open play this year

[Ian Royal]

Well done snowball. Now consider Kitson's 10 Premier League goals in a relegation side. And his 18 & 19 league goals in seasons he was out for at least a few games on the bounce injured and his 5 goals in his first half bit part season with us.

The fact that Kitson hasn't quite been the same player since his injury and particularly since he left us originally has no bearing on the fact that he was a far superior player to Long is now. And I'd still take him over Long now. Coz he's showing he's better at scoring in open play and anyone who watched him knows he wasn't too shabby at pens either.

[Snowball]

So you're saying a striker with 4 open play goals in the Championship this year is rubbish? god what does that leave a striker with say... 1 goal from open play this year

I'd say a striker with 4 goals, playing in the best first 11 in the Championship is not worth 5.5 Million and is on his way downhill.

I'd say people who obsess on where goals come from are a little bit silly and the almanacs
don't bother with how goals are scored, just goals scored

I'd also say that people who are deliberately selective and keep harping on the last FOUR
goals while ignoring the fact that 17 of the previous 18 were in open play, are at best taking
the piss, at worst, posting with an agenda.

[Wimb]

So you're saying a striker with 4 open play goals in the Championship this year is rubbish? god what does that leave a striker with say... 1 goal from open play this year

I'd say a striker with 4 goals, playing in the best first 11 in the Championship is not worth 5.5 Million and is on his way downhill.

I'd say people who obsess on where goals come from are a little bit silly and the almanacs
don't bother with how goals are scored, just goals scored

I'd also say that people who are deliberately selective and keep harping on the last FOUR
goals while ignoring the fact that 17 of the previous 18 were in open play, are at best taking
the piss, at worst, posting with an agenda.

What a shame football is watched and judged by human beings rather then almanacs eh?

I have no agenda, I'm asking your opinion that if Kitson 'a man on his way downhill' despite outscoring Long 4/1 (with less league starts) then how good does that make Shane Long goalscoring wise RIGHT NOW?

Don't think anyone would try and argue that Kitson of 2008-2010 is worth £5.5million but one of Kitson's ability from 04-08 was worth that gamble.

The day Shane Long goes for £5.5 million I'll eat my hat. Long's nowhere near as bad as some people on here make out, but to compare him with a Kitson in his prime is the joke my friend.

[Stranded]

Did you bleat when Doyle had had TWO in 19?

Yes, actually. Sure, he had some fans (like Long does now), but Coppell was getting vilified by some as Doyle was seemingly undroppable.

Yep was going to post that but see you've already done it.

As for Long, I like what he's becoming but at the moment if we are planning on continuing with the 3 strikers playing, I'd like to see Hunt and Long swap places.

[Snowball]

The day Shane Long goes for £5.5 million I'll eat my hat. Long's nowhere near as bad as some people on here make out, but to compare him with a Kitson in his prime is the joke my friend.

You folks keep doing this.

I am NOT saying Long EVER WAS as good as Kitson WAS or Kitson IS, right now.

What I AM saying is that when you can get like for like comparisons Long doesn't look shabby in comparison

Can you not see the difference?

Would I swap in Doyle for Long today? YES.
Would I swap Kitson in for Long today? CATEGORICALLY NOT.

A year from now Long 2011-12 will be a better player than Kitson 2011-12

You lot just refuse to compare like for like. Long TODAY should be compared with Doyle when he first got to Reading,
because that's the age Long is now and Doyle was then. It's difficult, I know, but try to put Long as he is TODAY in a side
alongside Kitson as his 442 partner (or Doyle) or occasionally Lita, and being supplied by Shorey, Glen Little, Sidwell/Harper etc


Can you not see how you aren't comparing like with like? How would Long do today if Sidwell came back
and Long was partnering Doyle in a 442? SEE?

[Terminal Boardom]

If you want to talk stats, Ollie Kearns is probably the most prolific striker that we have ever had. Better than 1 goal every 180 minutes.

[Snowball]

[

I have no agenda, I'm asking your opinion that if Kitson 'a man on his way downhill' despite outscoring Long 4/1 (with less league starts) then how good does that make Shane Long goalscoring wise RIGHT NOW?

Kitson is NOT outscoring Long at ALL, this season. ABSOLUTE, UNDENIABLE FACT.

Nor is he outscoring Long over the last three seasons (2008-9, 2009/10, 2010/11)

2010-11 13 (01) Appearances 04 Goals Kitson (Portsmouth)
2009-10 12 (09) Appearances 05 Goals Kitson (Stoke)
2009-10 06 (00) Appearances 03 Goals Kitson (Middlesbro)
2008-09 11 (07) Appearances 00 Goals Kitson (Stoke)
2008-09 09 (01) Appearances 02 Goals Kitson (Reading)

2010-11 16 (01) Appearances 04 Goals Long
2009-10 24 (12) Appearances 09 Goals Long
2008-09 15 (26) Appearances 09 Goals Long

22 Goals 55 (39) = 61.5 Games in 2.33 Seasons = 1 Goal every 2.75 Games: Long
14 Goals 51 (18) = 54.0 Games in 2.33 Seasons = 1 Goal every 3.86 Games: Kitson

[Snowball]

For clarity, this is a direct comparison of Kitson and Long for the last 2.33 seasons


22 Goals in 55 (39) = 61.5 Games in 2.33 Seasons = 1 Goal every 2.75 Games: Long

14 Goals in 51 (18) = 54.0 Games in 2.33 Seasons = 1 Goal every 3.86 Games: Kitson


No doubt Kitson's boots were too tight, the weather was wrong, he wasn't feeling well. What else?

[Terminal Boardom]

For clarity, this is a direct comparison of Kitson and Long for the last 2.33 seasons


22 Goals in 55 (39) = 61.5 Games in 2.33 Seasons = 1 Goal every 2.75 Games: Long

14 Goals in 51 (18) = 54.0 Games in 2.33 Seasons = 1 Goal every 3.86 Games: Kitson


No doubt Kitson's boots were too tight, the weather was wrong, he wasn't feeling well. What else?

Try comparing like for like. Compare Kitson's first 2.33 seasons at Reading with Long. I think a blind man can see that Kitson's strike rate is more impressive that Long's. But then again, you ARE blind. Just for once, what do you see when Reading play? What do you see that is so impressive about Long that makes you claim he is better than Kitson? And, to make it clearer for you, I AM TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE WITNESSED AT FOOTBALL MATCHES AND NOT SOME NUMBERS SPEWING OUT OF A COMPUTER

[Royal With Cheese]

For clarity, this is a direct comparison of Kitson and Long for the last 2.33 seasons


22 Goals in 55 (39) = 61.5 Games in 2.33 Seasons = 1 Goal every 2.75 Games: Long

14 Goals in 51 (18) = 54.0 Games in 2.33 Seasons = 1 Goal every 3.86 Games: Kitson


No doubt Kitson's boots were too tight, the weather was wrong, he wasn't feeling well. What else?

Try comparing like for like. Compare Kitson's first 2.33 seasons at Reading with Long. I think a blind man can see that Kitson's strike rate is more impressive that Long's. But then again, you ARE blind. Just for once, what do you see when Reading play? What do you see that is so impressive about Long that makes you claim he is better than Kitson? And, to make it clearer for you, I AM TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE WITNESSED AT FOOTBALL MATCHES AND NOT SOME NUMBERS SPEWING OUT OF A COMPUTER

Agreed TB.

The main difference is, of course, that Kitson has actually done "it". Long, in some people's eyes, has yet to do "it".

I'm not particularly interested in the analysis of "it" as "it" is impossible to quantify competently with statistics.

[Snowball]

For clarity, this is a direct comparison of Kitson and Long for the last 2.33 seasons


22 Goals in 55 (39) = 61.5 Games in 2.33 Seasons = 1 Goal every 2.75 Games: Long

14 Goals in 51 (18) = 54.0 Games in 2.33 Seasons = 1 Goal every 3.86 Games: Kitson


No doubt Kitson's boots were too tight, the weather was wrong, he wasn't feeling well. What else?

Try comparing like for like. Compare Kitson's first 2.33 seasons at Reading with Long. I think a blind man can see that Kitson's strike rate is more impressive that Long's. But then again, you ARE blind. Just for once, what do you see when Reading play? What do you see that is so impressive about Long that makes you claim he is better than Kitson? And, to make it clearer for you, I AM TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE WITNESSED AT FOOTBALL MATCHES AND NOT SOME NUMBERS SPEWING OUT OF A COMPUTER

What is WRONG with you people? Have you ever heard of direct comparison?

Kitson had played 102 Games and scored 40 goals BEFORE HE EVEN ARRIVED AT READING.

His first game was January 10th 2004, 11 days before his 24th Birthday he was OLDER than Long is today, November 15 2010.

He came into a very decent side that finished seventh that year and the following year, with a couple of changes would walk the league, a team that in 2004-5 comprised, Hahnemann, Ingimarsson, Shorey, Sidwell, Harper, Andy Hughes, Graeme Murty, Glen Little, Ibrahima Sonko, Nicky Forster, Convey, Goater, Owusu, Newman, Ady Williams, Dean Morgan, Ferdinand, Keown

How many of that team would get into today's side? The following season we "ONLY" added Doyle, SHunt, Lita and Gunnarson!!!!

However we look at it, the Long today, (a couple of months younger TODAY than Kitson was when he first arrived here with all his experience)
is not playing in a side with all the potential and power of the 2004-2006 team. You have to think of ALL the factors!!!